If and when it's possible, should human cloning be allowed?

[AB Asks]

There have been news reports of a breakthrough in primate cloning, which has brought the possibility of human cloning a step closer. Should scientists be allowed to go ahead and clone a human, or is it something that should remain in the science fiction novels? Can it be justified ethically?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7094215.st m

[jno]

that's true, sp1814; perhaps you should clone a few more days of the week to accommodate them all.

Jake, I share Lottie's misgivings about the notion of creating someone as a spare parts factory. I'm not sure if my reaction is rational or emotional, but I'd feel uncomfortable if I was told I'd been conceived so an older sibling (whom I might not even like!) could have a part of me.

[LoftyLottie]

Have you read the book I refer to jno? The girl in question adored her sister but still felt she could not go ahead with further surgery. Her parents loved her equally, but she always lived in the shadow of her sister.

It is a fictional book, but extremely interesting and thought provoking.

[jake-the-peg]

We're a long way off of human cloning but these issues are with us now.

I'm hazy on the details and I can't find the link right now but if I recall a couple who wanted embryo screening so that their child could be a bone marrow donor to their existing sick (dying?) child were turned down.

I can respect Lottie's opinion but there's two levels in ethical decisions like this firstly if possible should it be mandatory?

See the debate on the JW who bled to death

and secondly should it be permitted at all.

I can respect Lottie's saying she'd refuse such treatment because of what she believes.

But the question is are such beliefs so widely held and so strong that no body should be permitted to do such a thing/

In other words to force your moral opinions on others?

From a purely personal perspective I can say that if I were in such a position I would grab such an opportunity with both hands and not think twice.

The younger child would be brought up with as much love as the first - possibly more as a reflection of the life that it gave to the other child

[LoftyLottie]

But Jake putting children through surgical procedures before they are at an age to authorise it themselves surely is wrong and goes against children's human rights. It presumes that they hold the same views as the parents.

[jno]

I haven't, Lottie, but by the sound of it, it reflects my own reaction. The prospect seems to deny the second child any autonomy.

I suppose strictly speaking this needn't involve cloning at all. Anyone might be genetically better suited than a stranger for donating an organ to a sibling, say - but what if he or she doesn't want to? But the idea that he or she was conceived for this very purpose raises very awkward ethical questions. Isn't there a medical ethics committee that considers these matters?

[LoftyLottie]

Yes jno, I would gladly donate an organ to save a member of my own close family, but it is my decision to make.

[sp1814]

The problem with cloning technology is that 'once the cats out of the bag' you don't know who will get their hands on the technology and what it will be used for.

The whole idea of 'organ harvesting' is against what I (and I hope a lot of others) believe in with regards to the sanctity of life.

Gromit re: 'has been Madonna'.

I think you'll find that 'Hung Up' (released November 2005) has been her biggest ever selling single.

Face it...if there was ever a nuclear war, the only things that would survive would be cockroaches...and Madonna.

...and Madonna would be putting on a concert for the cockroaches, and making them join her fan club.

[jake-the-peg]

There is a committee jno and at the moment they agree with Lottie.

I wonder if any of them has actually had to explain to a sick child that it has to die because their ethics won't allow treatment

[jno]

Jake, you might think it right to create a clone for these purposes. But what if the newly cloned child disagreed? Would you expect to wait until it was old enough to make up its own mind? And if it disagreed, should you clone another one in the hope that it would be more malleable? Or, if time was of the essence, would you just go ahead and help yourself to whatever you wanted?

I take your point about it being hard to explain a refusal to child #1. But doing it your way would lead to the need for some equally tricky explanations to child #2. Perhaps we just have to make hard decisions sometimes?

[LoftyLottie]

It is especially heartbreaking Jake when children are ill, but unfortunately that is the way life is. I cannot see it being morally ethical to create a child to save another child. Transplants from existing donors are one thing, this is something totally different.

I just will never see that it can be just to conceive a child and put it through traumatic medical procedures to save the life of another, especially without the child's consent. We should not be allowed to play 'God'. (I am not religious by the way.

[badlad.biz]

Frightning, My mother-in-law works for a lab.
I'll never sleep safe again

[ruby27]

jake-the-peg

Sorry can not work out in what sort of situation could you use a cloned child to save the life of first child who is ill. If it was hereditary surely the cloned child would have same problem and if not hereditary but environmental or an accident, is your suggestion that you breed a clone and then when a suitable age you harvest bone marrow, liver, or some other part.

I thought the idea was to grow cells that could then be implanted, not growing a spare that you could use when wear and tear had resulted in the orginal body needing a replacment

My apologies is this is not what you are suggesting but I am very un scientific.

[NikkiB]

Cloning, like certain aspects of time travel, is something I just can't get my head around.
If you or I were cloned, we would also be our clone - or vice versa - would we feel our clones pain? Experience our cloens highs and lows? If my clone went to Florida, could I say that I'd been there?

[Le Chat]

You can clone a body but the mind and soul of each person is unique and very different. Identical twins have the same DNA exactly but as we all know, they are completely different in personality ...even if their brains are the same! You cannot clone a person's spirit.