As black as Newgate's Knocker

[ursula62]

My mum's grandmother used to say this. My mum never found out what it meant. Has anyone else heard the expression?

[andy hughes]

Never heard it, but I guess it refers to the knocker on the gates of Newgate Jail, which was probably black, and given its context, probably felt like it was as well.

[tartanwiz]

Andy is right - the knocker on the gate of Newgate Prison, which presumably would have been large, black and grim. In Scotland we have a wonderful old expression: 'As black as the Earl of Hell's waistcoat'.

[Quizmonster]

I'm sure the above answers are right, but - purely as a matter of interest - a 'Newgate knocker' was the fringe or lock of hair which costermongers and thieves twisted back towards their ears in the mid 19th century. (Possibly this name came about by reference to the colour and shape of the prison's real knocker.)

An actual door-knocker seems a more likely explanation, but it's just possible that it's a reference to hair-colour. In what circumstances did your grandmother use the phrase...was it in threatening/deathly circumstances or just when she meant 'very black'.

[ursula62]

She used to say it when she meant very black. Other people might have said as black as the ace of spades maybe.

[Earthlady]

I agree with the first two answers. My dad used to say "as black as your hat" always prompting the incredulous response - "What hat???"

[Kay]

As kids if one of us had dirty faces or hands my mother would say " Oh you're a black as the hobs of hell"