I haven't watched this

[PaulSabin]

As I've heard it's awful and I've seen too much in my time to already be completely ashamed to be human. Please help.

<embed src="http://www.peta.org/swf/fur_farm.swf" quality="high" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="335" height="255" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed>
Pledge to go fur-free at PETA.org

[tigerlily11]

I can't watch stuff like this so I'm taking a chance that this is about the fur industry. It's been a long time since we used fur just to keep warm. We don't need it any more other than to bolster some sad old bags sense of self importants. There are plenty of faux furs out there that are great and feel lovely. Faux fur doesn't need special cleaning and it isn't prone to attracting bugs.

[delboy3]

It takes a few dumb animals to make a fur coat, but only one to wear it

[Kromovaracun]

PaulSabin, may I suggest you feature some kind of warning if you're going to post material like this? I don't mean wishy-washy phrases like 'oh, this is so horrible' - perhaps you could actually bother to warn people how graphic your video is (I don't care how effective you intend it to be, common manners indicate that you should do so.)

I can confirm for those who don't want to watch that it is indeed about the fur industry. The video features several pieces footage of animals being skinned (while alive). It also includes shots of an animal after its been skinned (still alive), and shots of various animals being brutally killed. I'm not sure what the animals in question actually are, but they look like dogs of some kind.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the video is fake, but regardless of that, I'll chuck in my twopenneth on the fur trade:

Faux fur is far cheaper, less difficult to clean (and less difficult generally), and is virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. Ergo, going for real fur is utterly pointless and silly.

I'm not a big animal rights person. At all. The only time when I support protecting animals is when there's obvious ecological reasons (like if a species is being forced into extinction, for instance). Otherwise I don't really care. It is pretty clear that the fur trade does repulsive things to animals, but I'm not sure that it's wiping any out. Thus I'm pretty indifferent to whether it's banned or not.

It's a pretty pointless argument, however, as the market for real fur is plummeting quite dramatically due to stuff like this.

[Lucy Thomas]

Why would you think the video is fake? It's obviously genuine. I've seen this before and can't understand why they don't kill the animals first. If nothing else it would make the job easier.

[Kromovaracun]

Most fur-farms do (for the precise reason that you say in that it makes it much easier). The website shows the absolute worst though (and, to be fair, quite rightly)

I'm not saying that I think the video is fake. It just wouldn't surprise me.

[persianlady]

So glad that I did not open the link. What was described by someone was enought o give me nightmares. I am against all animal cruelty, and would quite happily put the people who run these farms against a wall and shoot them.

PS There is something wrong with a person who "really does not care" or is "indifferent" to unnecessary suffering. This person needs help.

[Kromovaracun]

Note: In the following response, I am not condoning or defending the activity of those in the video. I am merely defending my response.

If we were talking about human suffering I'd agree with you. But we're not. You might say that sounds incredibly callous, but remember that humans are also animals. Thus it's not really that unnatural for us to see the lives of other species as less valuable than our own.

For instance - which of the following bothers you more:

A person being murdered
A chicken being murdered

If you were to plump for the latter, I'd suggest it was you who had something wrong. Plus my indifference is really based on the fact that those in the video are the amatures - there are plenty of fur farms around that kill quick and clean.

[persianlady]

How did i know you were going to say that? Maybe it is because I have come accrosss plenty of morons like you before.Your question is hypothetical and very unlikely to happen and so it is irrelevant and the standard response from people who think they are superior.If you truly were superior, and intelligent you would have the understanding and compassion that would save these and all animals from unnecessary suffering. Note I am not saying that we should not eat meat. But the way in which they are farmed and slaughtered is a sad testament to the cruelty of man. And to do this to any animal for meat is bad enough, but to do it for fur is apalling.
thank God not all people feel ( or maybe I should say dont feel) like you do.There is no excuse for treating animals in this way, and for you to say that you are indifferent and dont really care about the pain and fear that is surely felt by these unfortunate animals, is disgusting.

[Kromovaracun]

I don't think I'm superior. I've never said that.

My question isn't totally irrelevant, it's just an illustration: Do you place the same value of a human life on that of a chicken? I'm just trying to show that it's almost instinctive in us (being advanced animals ourselves) to place less value on the life of another species.

Does <url="http://www.upc-online.org/townsend/22.jpg"> this</url> image of dead chickens rouse hatred in you? I didn't think so.

Why does a husky, then, deserve greater valuethan a chicken? Because it's cuter? Bigger?

you would have the understanding and compassion that would save these and all animals from unnecessary suffering.

I have plenty of compassion. Thing is, I care more about humans living on the streets than I do for animals that are killed (for the most part pretty quickly), and who were bred for only one purpose.

[Kromovaracun]

Note: Before we get too carried away, re-read my first post in the thread. You'll see that I'm actually against the fur trade by and large. I was just saying that it doesn't bother me all that much.

[tigerlily11]

I see your point Kromovaracun but if we have no care for the creatures we are in charge of what hope for the human race.
I would rather not see either the chicken or the human killed. But as pointed out we are what we are and we do eat meat. It is the care given and the quility of life that is being broungt into question. If we are going to sustain ourselves on these animals the the least we can do is treat them the best we can and make sure they are given the quickest and most painless death possible.
We do not need as I said in my first post, to ware real fur any more and I am glad that I didn't watch the footage as I would have cried for days and it being as you discribed, it is all the more reason that women who ware fur should be put in stocks and amde to watch this piece of footage over and over until they see just how vile it all is. Maybe then they will understand that as said by Delboy "It takes a few dumb animals to make a fur coat, but only one to wear it ."

[Kromovaracun]

I feel I should say that I do support animal protection when there's clearly extreme ecological problems at stake (well, there always is - but you all know what I mean). Thus, for example, I do support protecting endagered species and such.

In the case of fur farms and meat industry etc., it must be remembered that those animals were bred/created specifically for generating fur/meat. Thus there isn't really any direct ecological damage at stake.

[persianlady]

It is the avoidable pain and suffering that is the issue. Not whether animals are killed for their meat, or their fur for that matter. Though only a complete moron would wear a real fur coat these days. There is no need for animals to have to suffer in this way. You are a primitive soul and have a lot to learn. If you think that for the most part animals bred for food die pretty quickly then you are either naive or stupid.
It is not a case of who is more important - a human or a chicken - animals feel just as much pain and fear as we do, and deserve to be treated better than they are.

[Kromovaracun]

I know people who've raised stock for meat etc. and spoken to them about it. I've also seen it done first hand.

But, yeah, I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.


It is not a case of who is more important - a human or a chicken - animals feel just as much pain and fear as we do

Ah-HA! So you admit that you consider the animal's life to have less value than that of a human? Thus, you can see my point that it is natural - even if you don't consider an animal's life worthless - to devalue the lives of other species. This does not just apply to humans, it applies to just about every mammal, by and large.

Anyway, to address what you're saying here - I don't see why it matters that an animal feels pain. It's an animal (and before you respond, see above). Animals eat and kill each other all the time - sometimes in pretty nasty ways. Humans are pretty much advanced animals.

and deserve to be treated better than they are

Okay. You can pay for it, then.