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76-year-old jailed for not paying his council tax
A 76-year-old man who had been a soldier for 22 years was jailed for 34 days yesterday for refusing to pay �1,438.51 council tax. Richard Fitzmaurice said that he was in court on a matter of principle declaring that the way pensioners are treated is shocking. He said that life was becoming unbearable for many old people with rising food, energy and council tax bills. He said he could afford to pay the bill but many can't and made the point that some pensioners will be making a cup of tea in a winter coat because they cannot afford to heat their house. Mr Fitzmaurice will serve the full 34 day sentence unless the debt is paid off. What do you think? He is breaking the law, should he be protesting some other way to save himself the trauma of being imprisoned?
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I get a 25 percent discount on my poll tax (still sounds better than council tax) as I am single and pay around �90 per month.
Yes I am fully aware the NHS etc are funded differently, so what do I get for my �90??
Althoygh in the countryside I could summons the police and fire brigade who will arrice within 15 minutes.
Although I have a very long drive, I have my bins collected every week and garden waste and recycling collected every fortnight.
I have street lights where needed, a well kept and hygenic fountain in the high street, a small library with free internet access, the village is always nocely groomed and gardened with street furniture in excellent condition etc etc etc etc.
Yes I abhor this government with a passion and Gordon Brown with his podgy face and glass eye can burn in a vat of acid for all I care, but I would argue that for a mere �90 per month I get good value for money.
Yes I have a Conservative MP and councillor, but even vile Labour wards have good value sometimes.
Yes I am fully aware the NHS etc are funded differently, so what do I get for my �90??
Althoygh in the countryside I could summons the police and fire brigade who will arrice within 15 minutes.
Although I have a very long drive, I have my bins collected every week and garden waste and recycling collected every fortnight.
I have street lights where needed, a well kept and hygenic fountain in the high street, a small library with free internet access, the village is always nocely groomed and gardened with street furniture in excellent condition etc etc etc etc.
Yes I abhor this government with a passion and Gordon Brown with his podgy face and glass eye can burn in a vat of acid for all I care, but I would argue that for a mere �90 per month I get good value for money.
Yes I have a Conservative MP and councillor, but even vile Labour wards have good value sometimes.
Of course i'm interested in me me me Jake!
We live on a very limited income, despite both of us working and we have a 3 year old child.
That �2/�3 you seem to think is so little an amount can buy extra groceries each week to feed said child.
Forgive me if I put the welfare of my own family before someone I don't even know.
We live on a very limited income, despite both of us working and we have a 3 year old child.
That �2/�3 you seem to think is so little an amount can buy extra groceries each week to feed said child.
Forgive me if I put the welfare of my own family before someone I don't even know.
Laudable as your sentiments are, jake, it is scandalous that you should even have to consider such a course of action.
Every UK government (of both persuasions) I have known has always bleated on about �fairness�. Yet here we have, in Council Tax, one of the most iniquitous tax systems imaginable. Yet neither of the two parties who are, for the foreseeable future, the only groups likely to be elected to power, put forward any proposals to suggest that they might end its injustice.
Council Tax takes no account of one�s means � it simply looks at the arbitrary value of the property in which you live. You don�t even have to own the property to be taxed according to its value.
The notion that it is a charge for services is hogwash. When you pay for services you generally only pay for those that you use and those who do not pay do not benefit. As I said in my earlier post, with Council Tax quite often the reverse is more likely to be true.
I believe there is no justification for Council Tax at all. It�s not that I�m whinging that I pay too much tax � I do, as we all do, but that is not the thrust of my argument here. Essential services provided by local councils should be funded from general taxation. The revenue raising mechanism for those funds may not be perfect but has at least a semblance of fairness about it.
Every UK government (of both persuasions) I have known has always bleated on about �fairness�. Yet here we have, in Council Tax, one of the most iniquitous tax systems imaginable. Yet neither of the two parties who are, for the foreseeable future, the only groups likely to be elected to power, put forward any proposals to suggest that they might end its injustice.
Council Tax takes no account of one�s means � it simply looks at the arbitrary value of the property in which you live. You don�t even have to own the property to be taxed according to its value.
The notion that it is a charge for services is hogwash. When you pay for services you generally only pay for those that you use and those who do not pay do not benefit. As I said in my earlier post, with Council Tax quite often the reverse is more likely to be true.
I believe there is no justification for Council Tax at all. It�s not that I�m whinging that I pay too much tax � I do, as we all do, but that is not the thrust of my argument here. Essential services provided by local councils should be funded from general taxation. The revenue raising mechanism for those funds may not be perfect but has at least a semblance of fairness about it.
Ahh a nich demonstration of the twin Tory values of selfishness and greed all wrapped up in the flag.
Happy to support the campain of a pensioner who's fought for his country just as long as it doesn't involve paying any money for it!
And most often it's the weathiest too who've benefitted most from this country.
People well off enough to err ..say have time to sit as a magistrate and judge the "underclass"
Selfish, judgemental and patriotic.
Nice!
Happy to support the campain of a pensioner who's fought for his country just as long as it doesn't involve paying any money for it!
And most often it's the weathiest too who've benefitted most from this country.
People well off enough to err ..say have time to sit as a magistrate and judge the "underclass"
Selfish, judgemental and patriotic.
Nice!
Jake, I would happily join you in paying more if I thought it was necessary. The basic problem with the whole public sector is the sheer scale of waste at all levels. The attitude of public sector workers generally and not to mention the arrogance of councillors. Here in Bournemouth they've just awarded themslelves a 36% rise in exes! it takes 59 busy bodies to run a town which in private sector terms could be run with a dozen decent administrators. Ok they give the illusion of local democracy in reality it is largely irrelevant who get's in, it's snout in trough time. Multiply that throughout the land then add in westminster et al not to mention Brussells and we have cash eating monster of insatiable apetite. Taxes could be a quarter of what they are if they ran things efficiently. So I think the old guy is being futile but at least he's making a point rather than spouting the usual lefty twee argument "if you want better services you have to pay for them"! B0ll0cks if you want better services you have to use the public money wisely!
Abdulmajid, I'm glad youre happy with your council tax!
Youre lucky that if you ring the police they'll get to you within 15 minutes. It doesnt happen around here.
Many councils are now changing to fortnightly rubbish collections, with no reduction in charges.
We pay extra here to have our green waste collected every two weeks.
Some councils are starting to switch off street lighting to make themselves look green.
The only fountain we have in the high street is when the water main bursts.
A library - yes, great, but I'd be prepared to pay to use that as and when I needed to.
I pay for internet access at home, I dont feel the need to pay again to have it in the local library.
I'm glad youre happy!
Youre lucky that if you ring the police they'll get to you within 15 minutes. It doesnt happen around here.
Many councils are now changing to fortnightly rubbish collections, with no reduction in charges.
We pay extra here to have our green waste collected every two weeks.
Some councils are starting to switch off street lighting to make themselves look green.
The only fountain we have in the high street is when the water main bursts.
A library - yes, great, but I'd be prepared to pay to use that as and when I needed to.
I pay for internet access at home, I dont feel the need to pay again to have it in the local library.
I'm glad youre happy!
In the words of Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr , the late US Supreme Court judge: "Taxes are what we pay for civilised society".
Tax is what elevates us above anarchy.
I always roll my eyes when people complain about tax, or claim that they'd rather keep the money for themselves and their family than pay for others in society.
There's a simple way of reducing everyone's tax bill to zero. Do away with the government and public services. No elections, no parliament, no army, no health system.
If people want protecting, they can save their money and spend it on guns or private security firms. If they'd rather not, they're free not to. Private hospitals would cater for those who want to pay for treatment. You could pay a refuse collection company to take your rubbish away if and when you want to. And pay for your kids to be educated.
The rich will have no problem affording thse services. In fact, they'll be better off. The poor and vulnerable will be worse off and many will suffer and go without, but you have to put you and your family first don't you?
Then again, do you really resent paying tax that much?
Tax is what elevates us above anarchy.
I always roll my eyes when people complain about tax, or claim that they'd rather keep the money for themselves and their family than pay for others in society.
There's a simple way of reducing everyone's tax bill to zero. Do away with the government and public services. No elections, no parliament, no army, no health system.
If people want protecting, they can save their money and spend it on guns or private security firms. If they'd rather not, they're free not to. Private hospitals would cater for those who want to pay for treatment. You could pay a refuse collection company to take your rubbish away if and when you want to. And pay for your kids to be educated.
The rich will have no problem affording thse services. In fact, they'll be better off. The poor and vulnerable will be worse off and many will suffer and go without, but you have to put you and your family first don't you?
Then again, do you really resent paying tax that much?
Heres the reason prisons are over crowded.
People there who shouldn't be.
But at what point do we say that something is not s prisonable offence?
Some question.
What offences should you go to prison for?
Should only violent offences Be prisonable?
If so what do we give to those who are charged with offences like burglery, shop lifting and anything that is aimed towards meterial objects rather than anything that physically harms some one?
Any Ideas?
People there who shouldn't be.
But at what point do we say that something is not s prisonable offence?
Some question.
What offences should you go to prison for?
Should only violent offences Be prisonable?
If so what do we give to those who are charged with offences like burglery, shop lifting and anything that is aimed towards meterial objects rather than anything that physically harms some one?
Any Ideas?
Not sure if it the same all over the country, but council tax is means tested, especially for the elderly. If they are on a pension, they pay something like �18 a month council tax.
If they are in council housing, they pay very little or nothing at all.
I work with the elderly and the majority of them receive some sort of welfare benefits. Many of them are on income support, so again, pay nothing or very little.
The ones on benefits have an income more than I work for each week.
They get lump sum heating payments each year, free travel, the list just goes on.
Finally, I work for a council and we pay into our own pension scheme.
I am not being judgemental, just stating the facts.
If they are in council housing, they pay very little or nothing at all.
I work with the elderly and the majority of them receive some sort of welfare benefits. Many of them are on income support, so again, pay nothing or very little.
The ones on benefits have an income more than I work for each week.
They get lump sum heating payments each year, free travel, the list just goes on.
Finally, I work for a council and we pay into our own pension scheme.
I am not being judgemental, just stating the facts.
Here's a thought...you know how people suddenly start tub-thumping the minute an old war hero gets into the papers on a story like this?
Well, I wonder how many of the tub-thumpers actually have their own grandparents living with them in their comfortably warm houses?
Why did the idea of the extended family (which we see in Indian and Pakistani families) the norm here?
Are we saying that all these pensioners shivering in their unheated flats have absolutely no living relatives?
Nah...I think what's probably closer to the truth is that the do have relatives but they're too busy writing letters to the Daily Mail complaining about 'immigrant benefit cheats' in their usual muddle-headed and ignorant way.
God bless the SS Hypocrisy and all who sail in her!
Well, I wonder how many of the tub-thumpers actually have their own grandparents living with them in their comfortably warm houses?
Why did the idea of the extended family (which we see in Indian and Pakistani families) the norm here?
Are we saying that all these pensioners shivering in their unheated flats have absolutely no living relatives?
Nah...I think what's probably closer to the truth is that the do have relatives but they're too busy writing letters to the Daily Mail complaining about 'immigrant benefit cheats' in their usual muddle-headed and ignorant way.
God bless the SS Hypocrisy and all who sail in her!
"I am not a law-breaker. I am here on a matter of principle for all old-age pensioners. They are being shamefully treated.
Electricity and fuel costs are rising all the time and where can pensioners find the money to pay these bills? They just don't have it.� So said Mr Fitzmaurice.
If he is complaining about the cost of fuel, why is he not making a stand by refusing to pay his fuel bills? If food is too expensive, is he shoplifting on a daily basis? I doubt he is.
No doubt there are many pensioners who drive and complain about the price of petrol or the cost of car tax, would they be justified in withholding their council tax?
The law is the law and folk can not pick and choose which ones to obey.
Electricity and fuel costs are rising all the time and where can pensioners find the money to pay these bills? They just don't have it.� So said Mr Fitzmaurice.
If he is complaining about the cost of fuel, why is he not making a stand by refusing to pay his fuel bills? If food is too expensive, is he shoplifting on a daily basis? I doubt he is.
No doubt there are many pensioners who drive and complain about the price of petrol or the cost of car tax, would they be justified in withholding their council tax?
The law is the law and folk can not pick and choose which ones to obey.
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