Shih Tzu whelped 6 days ago - digging

[Cheekyteddy]

Hi guys - its me again.

Pebbles is feeling much better and I am supporting her feeding her 8 babies with welpi puppy milk every 4 hours - day and night!

However, Pebbles behaviour is a bit strange. She is leaving the pups when they are quiet and going down the garden and digging in the corner under a love seat. She is also hiding behind the settee which is against a wall so it is dark and cramped.

Does any one know what she is doing and why? She is eating a drinking ok. She is having anti biotics for her womb infection but otherwise seems well.

Thank you for your help.

Louise

[ruthann58]

never had puppies only kittens but it sounds to me as if she is looking for somewhere to make a new nest for them. when lankeela comes on i expect she will be able to help you, till then dont worry too much. glad to hear other wise everything is going well Ruth

[lankeela]

When did she start doing this? Are you giving her a calcium supplement? It is unusual for a bitch to leave puppies at such a young age. If she starts to shake or stagger get her to the vets immediately, as this could be eclampsia.

I would try to reduce the amount you are helping feed the puppies, as she may be thinking that as you are willing to do it, you can take over! Take her out on a lead into the garden and then take her back to them, but make sure she can get out of the whelping box and away from them if she needs to, but confine her to the same room. Have you got a heat lamp on them, because if so she may be too hot, so make sure she can get away from the heat source, also the puppies although they need to be kept warm if they are too hot they will be sprawled out all over the next box. If they are cold they will huddle together. Best thing is if they are lying close but not huddled.

This is probably just that she is a maiden bitch, not sure what to do now she has produced these babies, and some bitches are just not maternal. Keep weighing the babies to make sure they are gaining weight. Plan to worm them at two weeks old with a liquid puppy wormer (I use Panacur 10%) and if she is still not feeding them properly herself then you can think about weaning them at between two and three weeks, by introducing a very sloppy puppy porridge. Be warned though that once weaning starts she will stop cleaning up after them. As there are eight I would plan to start to wean them at three weeks anyway.

One other thing, don't be tempted to allow all and sundry in to visit the mum and pups, she could get upset by this and decide to leave them altogether.

[Cheekyteddy]

Thanks for the info.

I spoke to the vet earlier and she did not think that the calcium supplement was a good idea! She also did not think that Pebbles is suffering with eclampsia. However, she did agree that maybe feeding the pups should cease for 24 hours to see if the dam is managing ok without the interference.

I have stopped people coming to see her - at first everyone wanted to come and I let my family but the church members started to turn up at the door and I have started to say sorry when they are bigger you can come and see them but just now they need peace and quiet. I have also put a blanket over the crate they are in. The mum can get in and out but the babies are well protected.

She has stayed in the cage with them more this afternoon - only coming out to say hello and to have lunch and a treat.

Hopefully this will have sorted it.

Louise

[lankeela]

Sorry but I disagree with the vet over the calcium - bitches need extra when they are feeding puppies, if they don't get it they will get eclampsia. Please believe me, look it up, you will know if she gets it.

Most vets have never had a litter themselves, and whilst I don't profess to know everything a vet knows, in this case I have seen first hand experience of eclampsia and it is frightening.

I will try to find you a link to explain it.

[lankeela]

Short and sweet!

http://www.vikingvets.com/emergency/bitchespup pies.htm

[lankeela]

http://www.msnw15432.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/cani ne_eclampsia.htm

[lankeela]

How is Pebbles today? Are the puppies feeding ok?

[Snappy]

I also disagree with the vet, i almost lost a bitch to eclampsia, and the shot of calcium was almost instantaneous in bringing her round. Better to be safe than sorry

[Cheekyteddy]

Hi Lankeela and everyone

Pebbles does seem to be much better today and her appetite is voracious! She is spending lots of time with the pups and they are getting huge - well comparatively, and their fur is getting longer.

Where can I get the calcium if the vet is not keen? Someone on the net - not sure where - suggested Tums anti acids but that seems a bit strange.

The goats milk is becoming a favourite and she is having some a couple of times a day. She has put on a bit of weight which is good because she is normally 8.2 kg and when we took her to the vet during her emergency she had gone down to 7.6 kg.

I will give her the calcium if you can tell me where to get it. I am worried about her feeding 8 very hungry little pups.

I am so grateful for your help and support.

Louise

[lankeela]

Canovel tablets are available from most pet shops, or you can order online. Try Hyperdrug:

http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/searchprods.asp

[ruthann58]

morning louise how are all today still doing well i hope dont know what we would do without lankeela do you she is a mind of information isnt she i dont know how she remembers everything with me it goes in one ear and straight out the other must be my age

[lankeela]

Hows things with Pebbles and the puppies?

[Cheekyteddy]

Hi there

My computer crashed on Saturday and this is the first time I have been able to get on someone elses to check mail etc.

Pebbles and pups are ok, but one of the pups seems to have a hernia at the bottom of his tummy. Not near his umbilicus. I am not sure what to do now. Pebbles has not fed them much today. They have grown loads over the last 3 days and today she seems to be having a rest from them.

I got some multi vitamins from Holland and Barrett which have calcium in them so have given her one of those today. But I will get some of the ones that you recommend Lankeela.

Pebbles is still digging but not as much and still hides behind the sofa from time to time.

Thanks for all your support Lankeela and ruthan.

Louise

[ruthann58]

glad all is well and pups are growing fast. poor mum bet she is cream crackered feeding that lot no wonder she hides behind the settee i know i would. i had a pressie last night issi cat ran in to the lounge and gave me a nice large live mouse at my feet couldnt make out why she kept meowing at me till i looked down and there it sat she was so pleased with herself

[Cheekyteddy]

Hi Ruthann

The joys of pet ownership!

We had to have one pup put to sleep this morning. I have cried ever since. I can tell you now that I will never let Pebble have pups again. It is so traumatic. Pebbles seems to have settled down again with the remaining 7 so fingers crossed that they will be ok.

Louise

[lankeela]

Sorry to hear about the lost pup, but sadly this is not uncommon. I had a bitch who lost all three puppies over two weeks. She must have known something was wrong as she was trying to push them away from her.

They do soon get over it, but I think we feel more grief than they do. In the wild they would just go an produce another litter at the next season.

It is certainly not an easy thing to do to breed a litter, and I know several people who have lost their bitch as well through C Sections or through not realising a puppy was stuck.

[Cheekyteddy]

Thanks for your response.

I am still upset but Pebbles seems to be ok.

I am watching the other pups even more now - and - I was vigilant before.

Louise

[ruthann58]

loiuse sorry to hear you lost one of the pups i dont blame you for not wanting to breed again i toyed with the idea loads of times but decided in the end, that if anything was to go wrong i would never forgive myself as cassie has been such a special little dog and has helped me get through so much in the past few years, i also wish i had shown her as her brother is always winning things and she is far nicer than him (i am biased though) but she is six now so probably to old, since i lost muppet 3 weeks ago i have started toying with the idea of getting another and have been trying to find someone breeding from the same lines as cassie .hope all is well today hugs to all Ruth

[snakeyes]

with eight babies constantly feeding off you wouldn,t you just want to escape somewhere quiet evrynow and then, don,t worry as they get older she,ll do it more, spending time with them only to feed and as you wean them less and less, as long as she is feeding them allow her to escape when she needs to.