Are you still not sure how much contempt they have for you ?!

[bazwillrun]

then this will help you

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eur eferendum/2123816/EU-Treaty-Nicolas-Sarkozy-pl ans-to-bypass-Irish-no-vote.html


and this is just the start

[jno]

as I am neither Irish nor French, I am not building up a head of steam just yet

[vehelpfulguy]

We should all realise that these politicians are FAR FAR more intelligent than us mere mortals.

They KNOW the EU is good for us, and no matter how many times we vote NO they will continue with it because it is what THEY want.

We, the ordinairy public, can see the stupidity and fraud that goes on in the EU, we have seen the stupidity of hundreds of thousands of people going from country to country to work, the stupidity of the British paying out child benefit to children living in Poland and other countries.

BUT THEY KNOW BEST SO WE JUST HAVE TO LUMP IT !!

[Lucy Thomas]

I agree with vhg.

The fact is that this treaty has been written in such a fashion as to totally confuse not only the electorate but also the political classes.

Indeed, the Irish PM admitted that he hadn't even read it. If he hadn't read it, how was he qualified to tell the Irish people to vote for it.

I think the main reason why the Irish people rejected it was because of the fact that only the Irish were allowed to vote on it because the Irish constitution demands referenda on major constitutional issues.

The Irish have done the right thing because if you are unsure about voting for change then it is better to stick with the status quo.

Well done Paddy.

[stokemaveric]

who cares?the rich get richer,the eu politicians keep ripping the people off by claiming ''expenses'' and paying them to their ''partners'' gay or otherwise...my advice is....keep feathering your own nests because that is what the fat cat politicians do.

[New Judge]

But you wn't be able to do that for very much longer (if indeed you are able to do it now).

The ever increasing bureaucracy of anever-expanding EU will eat up more and more of your cash in the form of taxes. And the Parliament at Westminster will be powerless to do anything about it.

If people cannot see from tonight's reaction of the EU leaders to a country rejecting their grandiose plans, then they never will.

[stokemaveric]

newjudge i agree with you entirely what i mean to say ITS EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF..........

[jno]

actually, it's not at all clear what conclusions are to be drawn from the Irish vote. When France rejected its predecessor, for instance, it seemed that a major factor was the possible entry of Turkey into the EU. It wasn't that the French were against Europe, or against the EU - on the contrary, they are pretty committed Europeans. They're just against Turks.

Likewise, we don't actually know why the Irish voted as they did. Doubtless everyone will be trying to find out. But they too are not necessarily against the EU; they've profited hugely from it.

[mata hati]

I would be very interested to know what portion of the Irish people actually knew what they were voting about ? Does anyone understand it ? Do we always have rely on what our "leaders" tell us? As pointed out earlier in this thread - the jargon its written in is meant to confuse!

[New Judge]

Interviews shown with the Irish people showed that most of them did indeed not understand the contents of the treaty. Furthermore, their leader (who strongly urged them to vote "Yes") admitted that he had not, in fact, fully read the document himself.

So, on the basis that you should not sign (or vote for somebody else to sign on your behalf) something that you do not understand, they voted "No".

What they did understand (and this is not widely disputed) is that the treaty meant that many (more) of the decisions currently made by their elected representatives would henceforth be made by an unelected body made up mainly of foreigners. Thy were not even to be guaranteed a representative on this body (only 18 members will sit to represent the 27 nations). Furthermore, this body is rife with corruption on a massive scale, shows scant regard for the democratic processes of member states and will not rest until full integration into a single state is achieved.

That's probably why three "No" votes have now been returned by three different countries (including France, one of the most ardent of EU nations) in as many years.

[trionam]

As an irish person who voted no to the treaty I would agree with Jno it wasnt and anti europe vote Ireland has benefited hugely from the eu but I voted no because I didnt agree with certain aspects of the treaty simple as that. the government said no parts of the treaty could be changed and we had to accept it as it was well no thanks,if sakozy thinks we are voting again he can get stuffed.

[brionon]

A Multi millionaire tells the Irish to vote NO, and they do. Wonderful.

[New Judge]

You do a grave disservice to the Irish people, brionon.

They are more than intelligent enough to make up their own mind and were not "told" by Declan Ganley (to whom I presume you are referring) what to do. They were, however, threatened by a number of other multi-millionaires (most notably European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso) that they �would be the first to suffer� in the event of a �No� vote.

It is significant that despite Ireland being one of the largest beneficiaries of the EUs munificence, a �No� vote was nonetheless returned. The Irish people have weighed up the pros and cons (at least, those that were adequately explained to them) and have given their answer.

To suggest they did so because they were told to is offensive. They did quite the reverse. They heard what their leaders and the leaders of the EU were saying and told them to go forth and multiply.

[bazwillrun]

As to "understanding" the treaty, as a document per se it is not needed to "understand" it, the vast majority of people are more than clever enough to understand its implications in the same way the phrases "harmonisation" and "integration" are bandied about by politicians.

At a fundemental level they all mean and boil down to one and the same "Being Ruled From Brussels", Losing your countries identitiy, losing your currency , etc etc.

Becoming provinces in a Unted States of Europe having taxes imposed upon you by Europe to fund their ever burgeoning trough.

Phukk Europe and its politicians, they are just steamrollering over us like the Nazis tried to do in 1939 but failed, only difference is that back then it was common knowledge, now its insidious, its a a creeping cancer and all the politicians deny it is happening.