knives

[newtron]

What do you think about this possible knife ban for people under 18?  When I was a kid, I was given a knife at a young age, as it was a useful tool to have.  Why don't we concentrate on teaching responsibility rather than making it illegal to have certain items or to do certain things?

[woofgang]

I tto had a pen knife at about the age of six or seven. Hopefully this country will turn itself around and start teaching that it isn't a good idea to stick knives into people, but until then sadly a ban on sale of knives to under 18's seems to be on the cards. Do I understand that the ban is on sale to, not ownership?

[andy hughes]

Society and culture has changed over the last thrity years. Boys used to have pen knives and whittle sticks, or carve initials, now they feel it adds to their 'hard' image, and it can easily lead to boasts being backed up with actions. My appraoch with knives is the same as with guns. Ask an individual if he or she would like to carry a gun, or knife. Those who say 'yes' should automatically be banned from ever owning either!

[newtron]

andy hughes, that's a little harsh.  I carry a pocket knife and it comes in handy on a daily basis for opening packages, cutting foods, etc. , but I have never stabbed anybody.  When I lived in the US, I would usually have a gun in the car, but I never shot anybody.  The fact is that I am a responsible member of society and just because I wish to carry a gun or knife doen't make me a bad person.  Guns and knives are tools and tools are made to be used by humans.  Chainsaws, table saws, tractors, cars, etc. are all tools that can be dangerous to the user and others if used irresponsibly. 

[smudge]

My husband carries a 'swiss army knife' & I can assure you  it has come in handy on several occasions, but obviously not for any unlawful purposes.

 

Having said that, the town in which we live, have had three stabbings in the last six years, all of them after pub closing time & all of them fatal. Perhaps lack of education, drugs & alcohol play a part in all this?

[andy hughes]

I have thought about my previous, slightly hasty, response, and would like ammend my opinion -

Carrying a 'tool' knife with an evident practical purpose is probably OK, but a young lad carrying a 10" bowie knife has to be illegal. I do feel that carrying a gun or a knife c an all too easliy lead to using a gun or a knife. I accept that there are a number of responsible people who carry either, or indeed both - gun legislation is far easier to assess and implement, I'll have to withdraw my observations about asking / banning knife users. Thanks to all who have added to the debate.

[WaldoMcFroog]

It's going to make it a little difficult for an under 18 year old to get vocational training as a chef, non?

[smudge]

Andy - I totally agree with your amended post. There really is no need for anyone to carry a 'non tool' type knife or a gun around with them. God help us if it ever does get to the stage that we 'have' to do so, purely for protection.

[natalie_1982]

Why dos anyone need to carry a knife or gun in the first place?  As far as I can see you would only need to carry either if your jobs involved it.  And I doubt every 'carrier' can claim they are a carpet fitter or farmer.

 

Why don't you use a letter opener to open a parcel?  Why not use a cutlery knife to cut your food?  I know I'm being simple, but it seems simple to me.  If you have a knife there's no chance of you using it.

 

On my road in April this year a Jamaican was stabbed once through the heart, the victim has two kids and a wife.  His attacker did it in a fit of rage.  One stab.  If he had not had the knife, if he had had to drive home to get it, or even had to walk to his car, maybe his rage would have waivered a little and there wouldn't be two fatherless little girls and a widowed 22 year old girl.

 

As a side issue, the attacker got off scot free and is still wandering around brazen as you like.

[Ouisch]

Believe it or not, when I was in junior high school (mid-1970s), our student handbook actually said we could have knives as long as the blade was 4" long or shorter.  (!)  Looking back, I'm surprised we were allowed to carry what could be a dangerous weapon, but then again, we survived those years with no attacks or stabbings.  For whatever reason, though, it seems our culture is more violent these days.  You can "teach" weapon responsibility until you're blue in the face, but when two kids get mad, and perhaps they've been huffing spray paint or smoking crank, responsibility goes out the window and gut reaction goes into play.

[Bangkok]

It might be wishful thinking, but I always thought the rules were that if you carried an item that could be considered an offense weapon and the Police found it, you would have to justify it to them or you may be charged and report to the CPS.  Therefore chefs, foresters, plumbers etc could carry their tools (a friend was an engineer and carried a Stanley Knife and screwdriver in her handbag).  If that is not the rule, it should be!

 

I own a Swiss Army knife, but do not routinely carry it as it is not often I would need to get a stone out of a horses hoof or cut a small branch off a tree.  I do take it with my on overseas trips, but it stays in my hotel room.

 

The practical issue is that because of the actions of a minority, the majority need to be regulated, and that some people take exception to that because they themselves do not feel they need regulation.  Personally, I cannot see myself murdering anyone regardless of whether it is illegal or not, but I have no objection to murder being illegal (and I know the two issues are not directly comparable). 

 

I have no objection to the sale of knifes being banned to under 18s (trainee chefs and similar can get either parental, college or employer assistance in obtaining knives). 

[smudge]

To me, a multi-purpose swiss army knife is no more dangerous than a manicure set, which also carries a  metal nail file & scissors, both of which could cause harm. As long as they are kept in safe hands, I can't see a problem.

[newtron]

Thanks for contributing to this debate.  This is obviously not an easy problem to solve.  natalie_1982, maybe you are correct, the attacker may not have killed that guy if he didn't have a knife, or maybe he would have just beat the guy to death with his fists or a near by rock.  It is hard to say.  The fact that kids in the past were able to carry knives with a smaller degree of resulting violence than is observed today indicates that having a knife is not the problem.  The root of the problem goes much deeper than that and is probably related the degradation of family values and that sort of stuff.  It is much easier say "That's just the way things are these days" and treat the symptoms of the problem by regulating everybody as Bangkok has stated.  Dealing with the problem in this way may also appear to get quicker results than getting to the root of the problem (although that is another arguement).  I mean, how do you change peoples' ways of life and their family values?  I'm sure we can't do it a month, a year or even ten years.  It is very difficult  to make plans with our childrens' childrens' interests in mind.  We want results now!  This inability to plan for the far future has important implications on the future of our society.  The continuation of regulating the majority because of the actions of the minority, when taken to the extreme, has extreme implications on the degradation of our basic civil rights in the future.  I'm not saying that we should not regulate these type of things, but I do think that at the same time, we should conciously start trying to get to the root of the problem.

[Tha-Flash]

I dont think banning knives would stop kids carrying or getting hold of them.

[natalie_1982]

You're right newtron, the guy may have used his fists but at least the other fella might have stood a chance if he had!

 

I agree with ansteyg that by banning it it won't stop the incidents, and with someone taking responsibility and actually educating people then perhaps knife crimes will drop. 

 

But there's still a part of me that knows these young kids that carry knives for show wouldn't have a chance to big it up in front of their mates or use them if they weren't allowed to carry them.

 

Perhaps increased sentences for knife crime will do the trick, people will be less inclined to use them if they knew they were going away longer.  Or more serious punishments for carrying weapons?  It may go the other way if knives are banned then knife crime could increase as it goes under ground.

[Gstrowes]

the ban seems to be an utterly pointless (excuse the expression) exercise. purely a knee-jerk reaction by sensationalist newspapers and attention seeking polititians.

ban all you want, but all anyone would have to do is reach into a kitchen drawer.