suicide. assisted or otherwise

[tigerlily11]

I know this is a touchy subject but after reading about tht young rugby player and his parents I wondered what others had to say on the subject.
If like some you think all life is sacred does that include your own or should you, as an idividual, be able to decide what happens to you or someone else?
If you are in your right mind at the time and choose to leave a living will which states that in the event of you being unable to make the dicision and you are at the point were nothing else can be done, then you want it over with?
Should that not be your individual right?
Should there not be something in place so that those who choose to can have that choice?
Is it not possible to have a system where by people, wether young or old can decide for themselves. When your young you might want to decide in advance that if old ages comes and you are suffering then you have that choice and you are taking it. Lets face it none of us knows what the future may bring.
I just want to know what other people think and would they take the option if it was there?
Thanks for your time.

[DaisyMae]

Tigerlily makes some valid points but there is always the case that after making a living will while young and healthy you may well decide to change your mind in later life. In most cases, barring accident, a person gets only gradually less able as they age, and so makes all the necessary adjustments and learns to continue living with the disabilities of age.

There are thousands of disabled youngsters who have achieved great things - the paralympics demonstrated this admirably. But one man shines out as a beacon of hope for all those who feel that life in a useless body is no life at all - I of course refer to Professor Stephen Hawking. He can do nothing for himself, he cannot even talk unaided - but he manages to make his life full of purpose and he LIVES life to the full.

I think the loss of hope is the biggest killer, but the scientists have found only recently that they can bypass the damaged nerves in a broken spine and allow movement - it is all in its early stages but the foresee paraplegics being able to walk again. There is no way back from death.

[Lonnie]

Actually Sachs, if you are the parents, and the said person is living at home, I think, in that persons best interests, (and your own), you can, make that decision, although, on the legal side, once that person has become an adult, the state becomes his/her guardian.

tgerlily, a good point, but as said, this person is living with his/her parents, so you have to take into account the stress levels involved all round, and don't forget, they can't go to the authorities, because of past experiences.
A Moral dilemma which only the parents can answer, if they come to a decision.

Living wills are fore the mentally able, the person i'm talking about, (a real life person), is twentyfour, with a mental age of approx one year, able bodied, but does not speak or understand the spoken word.
The Day centre have said that soon they can no longer take her/him, the person is too strong now for the mother to take out, no help from family, and both mother and father are at their wits end
I know them personally, and they are constntly worried about the future, but, should they take the same course of action as the parents in the question, they would be legally murderers, but I for one, wouldn't blame them.

[tigerlily11]

As tricky as this all gets guess we have to leave the whole thing to those who are of sound mind only.
What makes the question as difficult as it is are those who cannot communicate their wishes.
It is such a hard situation to be for the carers. Especially family carers such as parents.
I would find it intorlerable to make the dicision for any of mine if they were in that place.
I would not be able to stand to see them suffer and at the same time my own wish for them to live, which as a parents is over whelming, would want to keep them with me.
The more I have read on this thread, and this has been a very good one for this site due to the interesting and sound contributions, I find the question harder and harder to answer or come to a valid and foolproof dicision over.
There are to many variables that must be considered and ao many moral aspects on the question of what iis a worthwhile existance.

[luxury]

Hi Tigerlily,

Have you read the comments from Baroness Warnock?

A duty to die:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_styl e/health/article4877973.ece

Her comments on euthanasia and people with ie: Alzhemers, is if one is a drain on the state or family etc then 'put them down'.

Living wills are about instructions on what choices of trreatment you want/don't want and that includes anti biotics.

Heres a link to patients rights for the refusal of treatment.

http://web.archive.org/web/20021003014227/www. ves.org.uk/DpA_RefusTr.html

and heres Dignity in Dying

http://www.dignityindying.org.uk/yourrights/

It's a very close subject to my heart as I joined DIGNITAS last year and I will have to travel alone it seems and perhaps thats for the best.

Take Care :) x

[tigerlily11]

�If you�re demented, you�re wasting people�s lives � your family�s lives � and you�re wasting the resources of the National Health Service,� she said.
�I�m fully in agreement with the argument that if pain is insufferable, then someone should be given help to die, but I feel there�s a wider argument that if somebody desperately wants to die because they�re a burden to their family, or the State, then I think they, too, should be allowed to die.�
Baroness Warnock

This is the reason for having that early will stating that you wish, if you have such a problem as Altzhiemers, that you do not wich to continue living.
But witht the treatment for this problem becoming better and better do we have the right to insist on it.
Who's to say that with the rising cost of treatment that some body with-in the NHS decides that some one is not worth the treatment.
I am talking from a point of view as a person who looked after my mother who was a sufferer and a possible sufferer mysef in the future.
I have made it clear to my loved ones that once all memeory of them has gone then let me go.
I would like that right.
With no memeories of my husband and children then my life in my view is over.

[luxury]

Hi Tigerlily,

I do hope you don't get Alzheimers, it's a horrible thing to watch our loved ones like that.
My FiL has it and the Arocet stopped working after 3 yrs, so I guess Baroness Warnock is right.....

But I cant even begin to imagine watching a doctor administer a drug to kill him unless he had requested that legally in writing and....

It's not possible here.

Dignitas here I come!!!

http://www.dignitas.ch/

Sorry it's in German, but it's also available in English on the left.

Look after yourself Tiger!!!

:) xxx