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The Value Of Taboos - Even Christianity!
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Last night, a 16 year old teenager was stabbed to death by a gang, outside of a youth club in Everton, Liverpool, just a stones throw away from where my first two children were christened, in St Georges' church on Everton Brow.
Many years ago, I knew whole families who were more afraid of the priest / vicar than the police, depending on their denomination, but that has been replaced with no police patrols, and a secular atheism that has been successful in destroying the beliefs / taboos, call it what you will, of organised religion.
My question is, was not life better for all concerned, when these belief systems were more widespread and respected, and the so called, "Enlightenment," has only given us a proliferation of streetwise hoodies and yobs, who will carry a knife and take a life for a laugh?
I'd like to see a return to, "Songs Of Praise," style churches, with sunday schools, W.I. Boy Scouts and Girl Guides, and, yes, the fear of damnation for the ones who would dare step out of the convention.
God help us as it is, and even more so as it is going to be.
Many years ago, I knew whole families who were more afraid of the priest / vicar than the police, depending on their denomination, but that has been replaced with no police patrols, and a secular atheism that has been successful in destroying the beliefs / taboos, call it what you will, of organised religion.
My question is, was not life better for all concerned, when these belief systems were more widespread and respected, and the so called, "Enlightenment," has only given us a proliferation of streetwise hoodies and yobs, who will carry a knife and take a life for a laugh?
I'd like to see a return to, "Songs Of Praise," style churches, with sunday schools, W.I. Boy Scouts and Girl Guides, and, yes, the fear of damnation for the ones who would dare step out of the convention.
God help us as it is, and even more so as it is going to be.
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I think the whole rebellion against such organised religion had a lot to do with the very dogmatic and aggressive approach taken by those Priests and Vicars who thought that the best way to control and potentially manipulate people was to put the fear of God into them and treat them with contempt.
The Songs of Praise image is a pleasant one, providing the people are doing it for personal belief and belonging, rather than what might become of them should they not do it, and that the Priests and Vicars act as counsellors and a friendly community face/guide, should the need arise for anyone of any denomination.
The Songs of Praise image is a pleasant one, providing the people are doing it for personal belief and belonging, rather than what might become of them should they not do it, and that the Priests and Vicars act as counsellors and a friendly community face/guide, should the need arise for anyone of any denomination.
I think a lot of the problems we see today are due to a lack of respect for oneself and others.
It's not so long ago that many folk dreaded being 'shown up' in front of the neighbours and cared what others thought about them.
If the children were cheeky outside the house, they were dealt with firmly by the parents and made to apologise.
Neighbours who knew each other for years would call each other Mr and Mrs, and the children would call them aunty and uncle if they were particularly close friends of the family.
If the neighbours saw your children 'up to no good' you heard about it and were expected to deal with it.
People made an effort to look 'respectable' when they went out, polishing shoes, for example.
Little things that helped to keep up standards.
Of course there were a minority of people who were considered a 'bad lot' but bad behaviour really was unacceptable , unlike today, it seems.
It's not so long ago that many folk dreaded being 'shown up' in front of the neighbours and cared what others thought about them.
If the children were cheeky outside the house, they were dealt with firmly by the parents and made to apologise.
Neighbours who knew each other for years would call each other Mr and Mrs, and the children would call them aunty and uncle if they were particularly close friends of the family.
If the neighbours saw your children 'up to no good' you heard about it and were expected to deal with it.
People made an effort to look 'respectable' when they went out, polishing shoes, for example.
Little things that helped to keep up standards.
Of course there were a minority of people who were considered a 'bad lot' but bad behaviour really was unacceptable , unlike today, it seems.
-- answer removed --
Of course there can be value in taboos. That stands to reason. However, is it not better that those taboos are based on reason rather than superstition? Apart from anything else, if they are based on superstition, it quickly becomes evident that they hold no power.
As for the fractured logic that leads Theland to conclude secularism is responsible for the lack of plod on the streets, it seems a little unlikely to me that there's any causal relationship between the two.
A more significant factor might be Thatcher's famous declaration that there was 'no such thing as society' and the promotion of me, me, me culture. The Tory Party, of course, has often been described as the political wing of the CoE. (Of course, I expect Theland will say they're not *proper* Christians in the CoE.)
Interesting too that Theland dreams of a "Songs Of Praise," style churches, with sunday schools, W.I. Boy Scouts and Girl Guides", given that to whatever extent such a romanticised view ever did exist (much like Thatcher's invocations of Churchillian Britain, it's at least 50% myth), it did so as a direct consequence of the Enlightenment, not in spite of it.
Personally, I'd far rather live in a society based on respect than one based on fear.
As for the fractured logic that leads Theland to conclude secularism is responsible for the lack of plod on the streets, it seems a little unlikely to me that there's any causal relationship between the two.
A more significant factor might be Thatcher's famous declaration that there was 'no such thing as society' and the promotion of me, me, me culture. The Tory Party, of course, has often been described as the political wing of the CoE. (Of course, I expect Theland will say they're not *proper* Christians in the CoE.)
Interesting too that Theland dreams of a "Songs Of Praise," style churches, with sunday schools, W.I. Boy Scouts and Girl Guides", given that to whatever extent such a romanticised view ever did exist (much like Thatcher's invocations of Churchillian Britain, it's at least 50% myth), it did so as a direct consequence of the Enlightenment, not in spite of it.
Personally, I'd far rather live in a society based on respect than one based on fear.
What Ethel said makes a lot of sense. When people would start thinking about others and would start looking beyond their nose or in simple words society would be more important that what me and you like personally.
I dress the way I feel better even if my trouser�s belt is near my knees, I swear the way I like even if majority feels it is bad at least my mum and dad back me up, I do what I want to do and I behave like how I want to behave and I do not give a damn about people around me as it is my life. These are the things which once were though bad for the society and then were compromised due to over exertion by few people who were like military sergeants.
You need a bit of freedom and a bit of discipline when you are growing.
Now that might be applied by a police man, a priest, a mullah or most importantly by parents.
I have to stop stealing, telling lies or any thing that is bad influence in the society before I can ask my child not to do it. Right now the problem is that we do not want to give up what we do and talk about others damaging the society.
End of the lecture, you may go home now.
I dress the way I feel better even if my trouser�s belt is near my knees, I swear the way I like even if majority feels it is bad at least my mum and dad back me up, I do what I want to do and I behave like how I want to behave and I do not give a damn about people around me as it is my life. These are the things which once were though bad for the society and then were compromised due to over exertion by few people who were like military sergeants.
You need a bit of freedom and a bit of discipline when you are growing.
Now that might be applied by a police man, a priest, a mullah or most importantly by parents.
I have to stop stealing, telling lies or any thing that is bad influence in the society before I can ask my child not to do it. Right now the problem is that we do not want to give up what we do and talk about others damaging the society.
End of the lecture, you may go home now.
Hi Lonnie. I'm getting there I hope.
I have a new granddaughter, (4th grandchild).
Waldo makes the excellent point as ever, but to me the yobs don't stop to think of logic and reason, and in the old days, simple fear helped to restrain them.
But of course i could be wrong. It has been known before!
Splat!
I have a new granddaughter, (4th grandchild).
Waldo makes the excellent point as ever, but to me the yobs don't stop to think of logic and reason, and in the old days, simple fear helped to restrain them.
But of course i could be wrong. It has been known before!
Splat!
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