can we please discuss babyb P

[markgem]

I am off to bed now but cant get out of my head the unbelievabe toture of that little boy. The last few days I have been avoiding the newspapers covering of it all, I dont think I am on my own, ( just cant bring myself to read it )
Do you realise as you are reading this there are many children being abused and neglected. Its fast becoming endemic in our society.
Even though I have trained as a substance misuse worker and deal with unbelievable personal shortcomings' absolutly nothing compares to the suffering of so many children in the UK.
I really want to try and move people to start getting angry with our so called sevices, how many more children have to suffer?
Please post as I have few ideas.

take care love n stuff trish x

take care and love the ones who love you trish xx

[terambulan]

Unfortunately tis impossible to help hidden cases like this.

Bad enuf the social services neglect but worse are the childrens charities whom we all donate to, while they conveniently lie-low!

It's a very distressing situation.

[markgem]

I realise this post is late I have been away working, please post a response ,dont think you are not affected . We must all do something . please please xxx

[Ice.Maiden]

It's been a very disturbing case trish - reduced me to tears when I read about it. I've sent off the forms that were in the papers. along with those that my friends've signed.
There's not too much that the general public can do, but we can hope for lengthy sentences, and I'm sure that other prisoners who have children on the outside, will feel so revolted by what's happened, that they'll dish out their own justice. x

[jno]

Getting angry is easy; the press is always there to whip you up. Still, here's a reminder (I've clipped it from the Guardian) that social services get blamed for everything- as if they were somehow to blame for society's failings. (Oh, and what do people expect children's charities to do? Go knocking on every door in the land till they find an abused child? They have no power to do so; they can only act on things they know about, and there's not a lot they can do then).

Earlier this year, the Daily Mail ran a feature headed: "Social workers took our children away ... because of an incorrect hospital diagnosis". The story concerned a young professional couple from Stockport, near Manchester, who took their six-month-old son to hospital after a fall. A paediatrician found a skull fracture. Social services moved quickly, taking the boy and his sister into care. Only four months later did a court clear the parents of abuse.

As the headline implies, the reporting was wholly sympathetic to the parents. Similar cases - some involving alleged physical abuse, others sexual abuse - appear regularly in the press. Other Mail headlines have included "How social workers took away our children for 11 months without a shred of evidence" and "My baby had cancer but social workers falsely accused me of child abuse".

However, other stories about social workers have a quite different angle. For these, the headlines read "Toddler found starved to death ... hadn't been seen by social workers for nearly a year" or "Social workers 'failed to act' on risks to toddler tortured to death". The latest example surfaced last week when a mother and two men were convicted of responsibility for the death of a 17-month-old boy (Baby P) in Haringey, north London, despite 60 visits to their home by social and health workers.

[markgem]

thank you ice m but dont you think that grass roots work needs to be done with young peope at a very early age, I totally agree with you about the punishment of abusers.

Society need to change, we need a public debate on all isues regardinfg child rearing. I feel so helpless but so want to do sometrhing .

[Ice.Maiden]

I agree about the press making things worse - if there COULD be a "worse" in this case, but Social Services - AND the doctor in this instance, failed appallingly. didn't the social worker concerned, have a few quick words with the child, saw him smile - and retreated?? the poor little mite was probably smiling through his agony, thinking that the woman'd come to rescue him!
The parents should be shot, and those who were supposed to've been looking in on the child are, in my humble opinion, useless at their jobs.

[jno]

but where are you going to find 'better' social workers if they're demonised for taking children from their parents and for leaving children with their parents? A pointless job, the Sun bellowing that they have blood on their hands... who'd want to do it?

And can everyone be absolutely sure that there is not, within say 3 blocks of their own home, an abused child they could be doing something about?

[Ice.Maiden]

I totally agree with you - it's a problem which I'm not qualified to answer, and I'm not so sure as I even HAVE a good answer. The papers are terrible for seeming one-sided, but I don't think it matters which one reports on events. the general feeling of people on the streets is one of total revulsion. I can only think, from a personal opinion, that if sentences were made to fit the crimes, then some of these tragic events'd stop. When it comes to brutal treatment of defenceless children or elderly people - in particular - then I seriously believe in the return of capital punishment. It wouldn't prevent some twisted folk from carrying on with what they do, but at least we'd be rid of a few of them.

[Totterdown]

This child must have suffered agonies. Didn't anyone have any suspicions what was going on? Neighbours who didn't want to get involved? The real father who showed concern after the event. Did he not visit the child? The real culprits who ignored P's suffering were the social workers. They were supposed to be the experts. The mother, boyfriend and lodger must have laughed their heads off. And still laughing, if reports are anything to go by. I don't normally believe in retribution, but in this case I hope they will get their just deserts.

[Ethel]

Social Services do not have the power to force an entry, nor to search premises once inside.

It is flipping easy in hindsight to point the finger at Social Services and be outraged. The reality is they were denied access on occasions; lied to constantly by very convincing liars and didn't have the gift of hindsight.

They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Responsibility for this lies fairly and squarely on three people - mother, stepfather and lodger.

I am sick and tired of people blaming the authorities for all our ills instead of the perpetrators.

[danchip]

social services should be visiting regularly and once inside would notice the squalor they were living in, this alone is enough to take a child into care

[Ethel]

That's made me laugh.

If all the children 'living in squalor' were taken in to care, there would be hundreds more children's homes.

Have you ANY idea what a children's home is like?

[Totterdown]

Yes, responsibility lies fairly and squarely with those three monsters. I said the real culprits who ignored P's sufferings were the social workers. They were never always denied access and did not follow up obvious warnings. Just one hint of abuse should have been enough. This particular council have had a lot of stick. Most councils and social workers are doing their job properly. I am not suggesting at all that all social workers are inadequate. The majority have a difficult job and that is recognised.

[danchip]

surely a child living in a rat infested house, with human and animal excriment all over and also on an at risk register due to non accidental injuries would be enough to justify taking a child into care

and yes i have experienced what a childrens home is like

[elginred]

I'm sure that a couple of days ago I heard on the news that 1 to 2 children die or are seriously abused EVERY WEEK in England and Wales, Unfortunately I can't find a link at the moment.

Now, I know that statistics can be manipulated to support an argument. However, there's no getting away from the fact that instead of retribution for baby Ps death, it should have been prevented in the first place. After all, Ethel, where I appreciate that social workers rights to intervene are limited, a major part of their role is child protection.

I do believe that the media should be taken to task for vilifying social workers who remove children from their homes in error. After all, if for every 100 they remove in error who are returned to their parents, if their actions save just one child, it would be worth it!!

I don't blame the social workers for baby Ps death, I blame a system that allows buck-passing between agencies, enormous workloads involving the most vulnerable in our society, and has a "blame culture" whereby scapegoats are made to shift responsibility.

I have a very responsible job, but for no money would I take on the role of a social worker!!

[elginred]

That made it sound like I have taken the liberty to apportion blame entirely to "the system"! However, I realise that the responsibility for this tragedy lies squarely with the parents, and other adults responsibly for abusing the baby!!

[danchip]

although social services and other authorities did not physically torture the baby they allowed others the opportunity to do it, the baby was presented to doctors on a number of occasions with non accidental injuries how many times were they going to let this happen before they did anything

[pastafreak]

We can throw all the bricks and blame we can muster at the 'authorities'......unfortunately-as jno says-they are demonised no matter WHAT they do. I think it must be one of the most thankless jobs in modern society as too often they need to play god and with quite limited wisdom. What is needed,is achange in people's perceptions and ideas about children and parenthood,...and respect in general. This is something that should start as early in the education process as possible.THEN-maybe the neighbour or friend who keeps quiet now will be more willing to speak up, maybe then the parents themselves will understand pain and suffering. The roots are in Society and how we treat each other.......human beings can be amazingly cruel if given half a chance.Unfortunately-people like Baby P's parents are probably border line mental health cases,and should never have been allowed to have children in the first place. But that is a route that smacks of eugenics and other awful things. Maybe if the signs and signals were recognised early on, they could have been stopped..........I wish there were REAL answers.

[markgem]

many thank for getting involved with debate. so many of you speak from your hearts with love , kindness and heartfelt wisdom. I myself intend to lobby my local council on the many isues concerning socialisation and positve parenting. Wish me luck as I do realise that my efforts are going to be ignored , but I am absolutly determing to shout until I am heard . love n stuff trish