ChatterBank2 mins ago
Please could anybody help me with my dissertation?
8 Answers
Dear Sepf members, I am a third year student at University, and I am currently in the process of collecting sources for my dissertation. The title of my work is 'With statistic showing that high numbers of children are leaving education without first having gained a basic understanding of English, could teaching grammar as a separate subject in schools be the answer?'
The reason that I am contacting you is that I thought it might be worth asking anybody if they have any old text books on grammar, or memories about how they were taught grammar at school, or opinions about whether they feel grammar should be taught in schools today.
I appreciate that you are all probably very busy people, but I would be very grateful for any help/advice/resources that anybody could give me.
Many thanks in advance,
Amanda
The reason that I am contacting you is that I thought it might be worth asking anybody if they have any old text books on grammar, or memories about how they were taught grammar at school, or opinions about whether they feel grammar should be taught in schools today.
I appreciate that you are all probably very busy people, but I would be very grateful for any help/advice/resources that anybody could give me.
Many thanks in advance,
Amanda
Answers
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I was taught grammar 50 years ago. We had to learn all the different parts of speech (noun, verb, adverb etc)and how to parse (dissect) a sentence into subject, verb, object etc. It helped me later when I learned foreign languages - to learn a foreign language you must know the parts of speech.
I now teach EFL to Russians and Eastern Europeans and it is much easier to teach them because they already know what parts of speech are, at least in their own language. Trying to teach foreign languages to English speakers is horrendous. How do explain the infinitive of a verb when they don't even know what a verb is!
I now teach EFL to Russians and Eastern Europeans and it is much easier to teach them because they already know what parts of speech are, at least in their own language. Trying to teach foreign languages to English speakers is horrendous. How do explain the infinitive of a verb when they don't even know what a verb is!
hi Twinkgirl.
Firstly, what does Sepf stand for?
Secondly, though I am of the generation that was taught grammar at school, I have no clear recollection of those lessons but I am aware that the expectation was that is was used throughout all schoolwork. I have to add that I was an 11 plus failure so the teaching of grammar within schools was not just confined to the "brainier" pupils.
Looking through my own books I have fond A Planned English Course by E Frank Candlin printed by University of London Press Ltd in 1948. My edition is dated 1963.
Whether this is still available is somewhat dubious but it may provide some clues.
This particular book was "primarily designed for use in Evening and County colleges it may meet the requirements of students attending a very much wider range of Commrrcial and General English courses."
From this I would conclude that the need for good English teaching was accepted but also that the education system had failed to provide it for all pupils.
Good luck with your dissertation
Firstly, what does Sepf stand for?
Secondly, though I am of the generation that was taught grammar at school, I have no clear recollection of those lessons but I am aware that the expectation was that is was used throughout all schoolwork. I have to add that I was an 11 plus failure so the teaching of grammar within schools was not just confined to the "brainier" pupils.
Looking through my own books I have fond A Planned English Course by E Frank Candlin printed by University of London Press Ltd in 1948. My edition is dated 1963.
Whether this is still available is somewhat dubious but it may provide some clues.
This particular book was "primarily designed for use in Evening and County colleges it may meet the requirements of students attending a very much wider range of Commrrcial and General English courses."
From this I would conclude that the need for good English teaching was accepted but also that the education system had failed to provide it for all pupils.
Good luck with your dissertation
For what it's worth, I first came across grammar and parts of speech etc at a grammar school in the 1960's. Prior to that I had no clue about grammar in English but I always achieved highly in English exams, and I put that down to reading a lot. A couple of teachers flogged their way through clause analysis and I did not like or understand it then or now.
The French and German I was taught at this school were utterly divorced from real life, 'the duster of my aunt is on the table' being one memorable french phrase I remember learning, Learning grammatical forms just slotted into that experience, and was simply a mechanistic way of applying rules to get the required marks. I got grade 1 GCSE's but didn't actually start speaking French until I was in my later 20's and was travelling abroad.
I think in retrospect that a simple understanding of grammatical structures is useful but this should be a means to an end - helping to see why and how verbs change and plurals are made can also help learners see similarities across different languages and so makes learning easier. Knowing what a noun is and which part of a sentence is the object makes it easier to apply German grammar, or cope with masculine and feminine nouns.
But other than than I can't defend the teaching of grammar for its own sake.
The French and German I was taught at this school were utterly divorced from real life, 'the duster of my aunt is on the table' being one memorable french phrase I remember learning, Learning grammatical forms just slotted into that experience, and was simply a mechanistic way of applying rules to get the required marks. I got grade 1 GCSE's but didn't actually start speaking French until I was in my later 20's and was travelling abroad.
I think in retrospect that a simple understanding of grammatical structures is useful but this should be a means to an end - helping to see why and how verbs change and plurals are made can also help learners see similarities across different languages and so makes learning easier. Knowing what a noun is and which part of a sentence is the object makes it easier to apply German grammar, or cope with masculine and feminine nouns.
But other than than I can't defend the teaching of grammar for its own sake.
Many thanks for the replies-good answers. It seems that people have mixed feeling about grammar, and whether or not it should be taught again in school.
Sfep, by the way, is The Society for Editors and Proofreaders. I also sent a copy of this question, via email, to sfep members, and that's why they are mentioned on here. Sorry about the confusion fellow answerbankers.
Sfep, by the way, is The Society for Editors and Proofreaders. I also sent a copy of this question, via email, to sfep members, and that's why they are mentioned on here. Sorry about the confusion fellow answerbankers.
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