Calling music experts (e.g. Andy Hughes)

[lesblue]

Did Coldplay "rip off" Joe Satriani?


I often hear songs, and think: " that sounds like.........", but to the untrained ear (mine), these songs are TOO similar for it not to be a copy. It's apparently going to court, and I, for one, reckon it don't look good for Coldplay.

Your thoughts please. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I

[MrBounty]

Remember back to when The Verve released Bittersweet Symphony.....they had apparently "ripped off" a Rolling Stones track - they then had to pay pretty much everything they had received from that track to the Stones.....

[4getmenot]

and vanilla ice ripped off Queen

[andy-hughes]

Not quite true MrBounty.

What The Verve did was to sample the Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra's instrumental version of The Stones' song 'You Can't Always Get What Ou Want'.

They were then sued by The Stones' former manager Allen Klein, who owns the copyright to the track, along with a large chunk of Stones' songs from this period.

The Verve were obliged to pay a proportion of the royaltties for their song to Mr Klein, and The Stones are not involved financially - they just wrote the song - which doesn't count (!)

[andy-hughes]

The legal concept of plaigarism is a seriously tricky legal area.

There is actually no legal defence in the claim that a copy was entirely subconcious - as George Harrison tried - and failed - in his court case -

http://www.benedict.com/Audio/Harrison/Harriso n.aspx

so if the court is presented with music that is in the public domain - and obviously it will be - then Coldplay are looking at loosing their case.

There are actually lawyers who specialise in this type of action - because the rewards, and costs, can be considerable - no doubt both sides will wheel in their own experts to jaw over it all.

As I said, saying you didn't mean it is no defence in law, so we will see, but Joe might be trousering some serious wedge from the Coldplay coffers if things go his way.

Oh, and yes 4getmenot - Vanillla Ice did sample wholesale from Queen and David Bowie, and got legally spanked for his trouble - a career-stalling manouvre as it turned out, so not always a bad thing to get these issues before m'learned fridends.

[mushroom25]

didn't the verve sample this?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cVuh1Ymve2I
(or have I been mistaken?)

[DC_FC]

Mushroom thats the song andy hughes is talking about

[terambulan]

and I thought it was called 'covering'?

[Whickerman]

it's covering where the original artist is credited and receives royalties - not the case here.

[andy-hughes]

The difference between 'covering' and 'sampling' is -

when an artist covers an artist's work, they record their own version of the that song.

when an artist 'samples' a song, they take a section of the original recording and use it in their own recording, thus -

Joe Cocker covered 'With A Little Help From My Friends' - composers acknowledged, appropriate royalties paid. no problem.

The Verve sampled the Andrew Loog Oldham Rorchestra, no permission sought, no royalties paid - court case.

[andy-hughes]

no.knowledge - that's not quite the same thing.

What you have here is a 'mash-up' - where a studio technician has taken two songs that obviously fit well - and mixed them into a further recording.

There is certainly an argument for plaigarism here - as there was with The Jam and 'Start!' and The Beatles' 'Tax Man', and many more - we could spend all night. ...

Most mash-ups are songs which you wouldn;t think would fit when mixed, but they do - Sister Sledge and 'We Are Family' goes very nicely with 'Relax' by Frankie Goes To Hollywood.

Get Limewire fired up, put 'mash-up' in the search, and fill your slippers!

[lesblue]

Thanks all for your input. Like I said, I don't think it looks very good for Coldplay.