Crosswords1 min ago
Up the creek
4 Answers
An elderly passenger when I was driving taxis near Portsmouth 10 years ago, told me a possible origin of this saying which seems reasonable to me but I haven't found it in any books or on-line research. I was wondering what others thought?
Apparently there was a clinic in Fareham (at the end of Fareham Creek that runs north from Portsmouth harbour) that treated returning sailors for the sorts of diseases they may have acquired from frequenting certain "ladies of the night" in various foreign ports. Thus it was fairly devastating to be sent "up the creek"!
"Up sh!t creek" and "...without a paddle" etc. were added later.
(The clinic at Fareham I believe to be now St. Christopher's hospital soon to be closed (if not already).)
Although it sounds a fairly reasonable explanation, it does sound fairly similar to being "sold down the river" (to Sing Sing).
Any comments welcome, please.
Apparently there was a clinic in Fareham (at the end of Fareham Creek that runs north from Portsmouth harbour) that treated returning sailors for the sorts of diseases they may have acquired from frequenting certain "ladies of the night" in various foreign ports. Thus it was fairly devastating to be sent "up the creek"!
"Up sh!t creek" and "...without a paddle" etc. were added later.
(The clinic at Fareham I believe to be now St. Christopher's hospital soon to be closed (if not already).)
Although it sounds a fairly reasonable explanation, it does sound fairly similar to being "sold down the river" (to Sing Sing).
Any comments welcome, please.
Answers
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According to Eric Partridge's Dictionary of Catch Phrases, it is perhaps originally from the Royal Navy, though certainly used in that Service by 1920. There is nothing as specific as Fareham Creek mentioned. It was taken up by the Army and the RAF before becoming widely spread.
The fact that it was sometimes concluded as 'up salt creek' rather than the variant you mention might suggest that no such specific creek was intended. This was supposedly a reference to Salt River in the USA. Barking Creek in London also figured at one time.
The fact that it was sometimes concluded as 'up salt creek' rather than the variant you mention might suggest that no such specific creek was intended. This was supposedly a reference to Salt River in the USA. Barking Creek in London also figured at one time.
According to Eric Partridge's Dictionary of Catch Phrases, it is perhaps originally from the Royal Navy, though certainly used in that Service by 1920. There is nothing as specific as Fareham Creek mentioned. It was taken up by the Army and the RAF before becoming widely spread.
The fact that it was sometimes concluded as 'up salt creek' rather than the variant you mention might suggest that no such specific creek was intended. This was supposedly a reference to Salt River in the USA. Barking Creek in London also figured at one time.
I suspect that your local passenger wanted to put a more local slant on things than history warrants.
The fact that it was sometimes concluded as 'up salt creek' rather than the variant you mention might suggest that no such specific creek was intended. This was supposedly a reference to Salt River in the USA. Barking Creek in London also figured at one time.
I suspect that your local passenger wanted to put a more local slant on things than history warrants.
Thanks quizmonster. I had researched this quite a bit but the Portsmouth connection for the Royal Navy made it sound quite compelling. It is definitely of UK origin so the US connection for salt creek sounds spurious - though, of course, Fareham Creek is salt water.
Thanks for your input. It certainly seems to date from pre WW1 which would date it about right for the passenger who told me (being a tar out of Pompey at that time). I just hoped someone could lead me further than the standard reference works.
Thanks for your input. It certainly seems to date from pre WW1 which would date it about right for the passenger who told me (being a tar out of Pompey at that time). I just hoped someone could lead me further than the standard reference works.
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