Halal or kosher meat?

[slinkycat]

Wasn't sure where to put this, went to LIDL last night and they have started to sell halal chicken, so I went home and looked into it, now I don't want to get into a muslim or jewish debate, just an animal welfare question! So as I understand it. Halal as far as animal slaughter is concerned specifies that the animals throat is cut with a very sharp knife, which should sever the windpipe and jugular but stop short of the spinal cord, another requirement is that no other animal witnesses this happening, and also that the person doing this blesses the animal, now I'm not religious but how do you feel about this? i have chickens and I think that if I was to have them slaughtered I would prefer it to be like this than in an electrified bath as is the norm for british chickens, by the way check out the german scientific report about pain levels re stunning versus halal methods, let me know what you think

[JockSporran]

I tried vegetarianism for a while but really missed meat so went back to meat-eating. I eat meat so long as I understand the animal doesn't have to suffer and is killed quickly. From what you describe, it sounds like halal and kosher are better methods of slaughter than some conventional methods.

[gilf]

Are you suggesting that cutting a wind pipe and letting the blood run from the body while the animal is still concious is better?

Can't see how that can be the case.

"In 2003, an independent advisory group - the Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) - concluded that the way halal (and Kosher) meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals and should be banned immediately. FAWC argued that cattle required up to two minutes to bleed to death when such means are employed."

[gilf]

Sorry should have nailed my colours to the mast, I'm a meat eater, if you eat meat an animal has to die simple as that. Do it as painlessly as possible but at the end of the day cutting it's throat in any way ain't gonna be a pick-nick for the animal.

I wasn't objecting to Ḏabīḥah in general just arguing the point that it is not quicker and nor does it mean less suffering.

[McMouse]

I've always understood that Halal and Kosher slaughter methods should be understood in their historic context. Back in biblical times it made sense to ensure that meat came from healthy animals and thus avoid any beast that was injured, diseased or found already dead. By introducing ritual slaughter methods as a religious necessity it kept "dodgy meat" out of the food chain.
In this day and age vets inspect animals before slaughter so the old halal and kosher rules should not be necessary.

[squillakid]

slinky where is the link for the german scientific report?

[brionon]

McMouse
Well done -ancient reasons for today's cruelty. If the Mulims religion required Humans to have sex with chickens,they'd be allowed to do so. Surrender.

[Octavius]

Of course I am sure there are many undesirable ways that we hear less about but I thought the current mainstream method of slaughter for chickens was that they were stunned unconscious upside down, then had their throats cut and all the blood drained.

Can this not be considered kosher/halal? Effectively it is still the cut that kills them.

[Oneeyedvic]

brionon - why pick on the Muslims (again)?

The question was specifically about Halal or kosher meat - do you think we are pandering to Jews as well?

[Rosetta]

This is obviously from a Muslim source and not the German one you refer to

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_sl aughter.htm

I have a recall that Muslims in Uk have now agreed to stunning animals before they are killed, or is that a senior moment on my part?

[Lonnie]

Just from the Jewish side, I don'r have too much time, so I copied it. Should answer part of your question.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a shochet, both from the Hebrew root Shin-Cheit-Tav, meaning to destroy or kill. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible.

Another advantage of shechitah is that it ensures rapid, complete draining of the blood, which is also necessary to render the meat kosher.

[beso]

The other side of this practice is the live animal trade to the middle east. Instead of being slaughtered after a short trip to an abbatoir this stupid ritual killing requires animals to endure weeks in alien conditions aboard ships.

On reaching the middle east the animals are brutally mishandled, kicked and beaten then shoved into car boots and taken home for the supposedly humane holy slaughter.

Religion everywere is blinkered from the bigger picture by the obsession with outdated ritual dreamed up to suit ancient conditions that no longer apply. Ther are no halal rules about transporting animals thousand of miles across an ocean because this wasn't envisaged at the time.

[brionon]

Oneeyedvic
Thurs 26/02/09
13:24 brionon - why pick on the Muslims (again)?

The question was specifically about Halal or kosher meat - do you think we are pandering to Jews as well?

No-that's why I said Muslim. Easy innit ? Just READ what I wrote !

[Clanad]

With a warning as to content, you may wish to view exactly what happens to cattle as they're slaughtered for Halal or Kosher consumption... The video happens to depict Kosher approved slaughter, but I've personally visited Halal processing plants and they're the same. They do process a lot of sheep and goats however. (In the interest of full disclosure, we raise beef cattle here in the western U.S. and joyfully consume same. The commercial slaughter houses kill cattle by driving them quickly into a squeeze shute and immediately a worker with a pneumatically operated nail gun like device explosively drives an 8 inch long nail into their foreheads resulting in instant death....)

Again, this is not for the faint of heart...

http://www.chooseveg.com/kosher-slaughter.asp

[slinkycat]

sorry I posted this question then didn't get back to any of your replies, had some rather upsetting news the morning after i posted and havn't felt like going on here, anyway thanks for your thoughts, its a contentious issue, haven't made my mind up yet, although clanads link, if it is typical of these methods of slaughter, may change my mind, its pretty horrific, but then again I've never seen a cow killed in what we think of as a "normal" slaughterhouse