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queen elizabeth 1
was queen elizabeth a man?
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No, the clue's in the name:
Queen = female ruler
Elizabeth = a girl's name
There was nothing to gain from trying a scam like what you think on account of royal life being spectaculrly public at the time, and because the heir to the throne, Edward (later Edward VI) was alive and while not exactly kicking but doing alright for a late child born to a syphilitic father.
Shakespeare puts words into Elizabth's mouth 'blah blah I have the stomach of a man' but Elizabeth did not really make this speech.
Elizabeth was 3rd - 4th in line to the throne, depending on your stance, and so was not expected to inherit. Had she been male it would have been advantageous to the Tudor dynasty to have her up the list with Edward.
Plus, a trannie would never have accpeted the fright-wigs she got in later life.
Queen = female ruler
Elizabeth = a girl's name
There was nothing to gain from trying a scam like what you think on account of royal life being spectaculrly public at the time, and because the heir to the throne, Edward (later Edward VI) was alive and while not exactly kicking but doing alright for a late child born to a syphilitic father.
Shakespeare puts words into Elizabth's mouth 'blah blah I have the stomach of a man' but Elizabeth did not really make this speech.
Elizabeth was 3rd - 4th in line to the throne, depending on your stance, and so was not expected to inherit. Had she been male it would have been advantageous to the Tudor dynasty to have her up the list with Edward.
Plus, a trannie would never have accpeted the fright-wigs she got in later life.
I guess I should explain my question in more detail. I wasn't posting this to be silly, or cause controversy. I was asking a serious question. I would like to thank Lil O'lady for her input. the reason why I posted this question is that I was hoping to see if anyone had heard of this legend, and if there was and truth to it.
Several years ago I was reading a book entitled "Myths and Legends of England." One of the stories in the book stated that the real Queen Elizabeth died when she was ten years old. Rather than tell her father, who was noted for losing his temper, and possibly your head for such news, the royal servants took a boy in the court roughly the same age, and passed him off as the the kings daughter. Problem was, once they began the rouse, they had to continue it. Therefore, the queen never married. Now the story doesnt end there. According to legend, several workers in the early 1800's were doing construction work at one of the castles, supposidly the same castle that Elizabeth was sent to after her father married Jane Seymour, and came across a coffin. Inside were the remains of a ten year old girl. When the authorities were notified, the workers were ordered to put the coffin back into the wall that they found it, and to never discuss it. No explination was ever given as to why they were told to do this. I had dismissed this story as a mere work of fiction until recently. the same story was relayed to me by one of my students. So we began to comb the internet for cluse. Naturally I remembered this site and posed the question to see if anyone else had heard of this.
Several years ago I was reading a book entitled "Myths and Legends of England." One of the stories in the book stated that the real Queen Elizabeth died when she was ten years old. Rather than tell her father, who was noted for losing his temper, and possibly your head for such news, the royal servants took a boy in the court roughly the same age, and passed him off as the the kings daughter. Problem was, once they began the rouse, they had to continue it. Therefore, the queen never married. Now the story doesnt end there. According to legend, several workers in the early 1800's were doing construction work at one of the castles, supposidly the same castle that Elizabeth was sent to after her father married Jane Seymour, and came across a coffin. Inside were the remains of a ten year old girl. When the authorities were notified, the workers were ordered to put the coffin back into the wall that they found it, and to never discuss it. No explination was ever given as to why they were told to do this. I had dismissed this story as a mere work of fiction until recently. the same story was relayed to me by one of my students. So we began to comb the internet for cluse. Naturally I remembered this site and posed the question to see if anyone else had heard of this.
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Steve: am I bovvered?
Chad: I have a very distant memory of the lead coffin discovery - actually in an article on 'Blue Pete', children's TV programme in early 1960's. But that is all I have ever known about it and never knew it was associated with QE1. I'd still be very suspicious about the story you have been told though: sad but true, children of rich and poor alike died in droves back then, so this would have been something H8 would just have to cope with.
I wish I had a pound for every tale that circulates about walled-up bodies or - the other favourite - secret tunnels that lead from X to Y.
Chad: I have a very distant memory of the lead coffin discovery - actually in an article on 'Blue Pete', children's TV programme in early 1960's. But that is all I have ever known about it and never knew it was associated with QE1. I'd still be very suspicious about the story you have been told though: sad but true, children of rich and poor alike died in droves back then, so this would have been something H8 would just have to cope with.
I wish I had a pound for every tale that circulates about walled-up bodies or - the other favourite - secret tunnels that lead from X to Y.
You're all thinking of the Gloucestershire legend of "The Bisley Boy" which basically states that while on a visit to nearby Berkeley Castle as a child, Elizabeth suddenly died.
Panicking officials substituted the most suitable red headed child, who happened to be a boy.
Elizabeth went bald, never married, left explicit instructions forbidding a postmortem, and was fond of saying she had "the heart of a man". Hmmmm.
A skeleton of a young girl in tudor dress was found in the area a few years ago.
Panicking officials substituted the most suitable red headed child, who happened to be a boy.
Elizabeth went bald, never married, left explicit instructions forbidding a postmortem, and was fond of saying she had "the heart of a man". Hmmmm.
A skeleton of a young girl in tudor dress was found in the area a few years ago.
Solarjunkie, please forgive my scepticism, but as a historian and archaeologist I must 'put my hands into the wounds' so to speak of anything that purports to be evidence.
I put it to you that the story you relate is just that.
Forensically, ''a skeleton found here some time ago' is not acceptable as evidence. We have to be able to see, examine and evaluate it.
Just as a starting point: clothes in tudor times were made of exclusively organic materials. These decay readily. For clothing to survive the remains would have to have been in oddly dry conditions, and even then would be liable to crumble when disturbed.
Who identified the clothing remains as tudor? How reliable was their assessment?
That's just for starters. I think it is wonderful that these stories still circulate but come on, we all watch CSI nowadays.
Elizabeth I was embalmed (crudely) when she died so I think they might have noticed and commented on any extras found at the time on her person.
I put it to you that the story you relate is just that.
Forensically, ''a skeleton found here some time ago' is not acceptable as evidence. We have to be able to see, examine and evaluate it.
Just as a starting point: clothes in tudor times were made of exclusively organic materials. These decay readily. For clothing to survive the remains would have to have been in oddly dry conditions, and even then would be liable to crumble when disturbed.
Who identified the clothing remains as tudor? How reliable was their assessment?
That's just for starters. I think it is wonderful that these stories still circulate but come on, we all watch CSI nowadays.
Elizabeth I was embalmed (crudely) when she died so I think they might have noticed and commented on any extras found at the time on her person.
Truthfully, unless we can examine the coffin that was found, along with the remains, and then examine QE1's remains, we will never truly know, Yet, it is nice to speculate. However, unless an eye witness from that era comes forth (doubtful don't you think) , or an ancient document surfaces from the catacombs, the story will remain that, simply a story. Some stories are best left alone to the ages. This seems to be one. What I'm interested in is how it began and why.
I would like to thank solarlady for giving me the nameof the story, which I didn't know before this was posted "TheGloucestershire legend of "The Bisley Boy", and Lil o Lady for her knowledge as well. She is quite knowledgable in her history. For example, I never knew that Elizabeth had been embalmed. Now that I know the name of the stroy i will do more research into it and try to determine the year that it supposidly occured, and see if there are any 'RELIABLE" documents that pertain to the story. Personally, I think its simply a myth. Yet, every myth has a beginning. Should anyone care to help me at least determine as to what year the myth began and how, I would appreciate it.
I would like to thank solarlady for giving me the nameof the story, which I didn't know before this was posted "TheGloucestershire legend of "The Bisley Boy", and Lil o Lady for her knowledge as well. She is quite knowledgable in her history. For example, I never knew that Elizabeth had been embalmed. Now that I know the name of the stroy i will do more research into it and try to determine the year that it supposidly occured, and see if there are any 'RELIABLE" documents that pertain to the story. Personally, I think its simply a myth. Yet, every myth has a beginning. Should anyone care to help me at least determine as to what year the myth began and how, I would appreciate it.
It's all probably a myth but see if you can get hold of a copy of The Bisley Boy by Chris Hunt .Brilliant book .
I did read somewhere that in view of all this legend and speculation an application was made by Bisley Boy fans to open her tomb even as late as the early fifties but the request was refused.
I did read somewhere that in view of all this legend and speculation an application was made by Bisley Boy fans to open her tomb even as late as the early fifties but the request was refused.
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