no insurance but thought I was covered

[davejhare]

I have recently been pulled over driving a friends car because his car was not insured and it was triggered by a police car computer.

My private car insurance covers me driving another vehicle with the owners permission if that vehicle is insured. As far as I was aware it was insured, I checked the tax, MOT and insurance document and drove the vehicle wihout any concern. My friend is currently overseas and it has transpired when in the back of the police car with the officer talking to an insurance company, that a payment did not go through on his insurance so they cancelled it in Jan, he was of the opinion it was valid and ran from April to April.

Do I stand anychance of getting out of this as I have been issued with a fixed penalty of �200 fine and 6 points.

[barry1010]

You may have a valid Special Reasons Argument.
"Special Reasons Arguments

It can sometimes be argued that, whilst you are technically guilty of the offence in question because you were uninsured at the time you were driving, you have Special Reasons in relation to the circumstances in which you were driving, namely that you were driving under the genuine misapprehension that you were insured at the time. If you successfully argue that there are Special Reasons then the Magistrates have a discretion not to impose penalty points. In order to argue Special Reasons you would need to support your argument by giving evidence on oath and it is preferable to provide documentary evidence to the Magistrates in order to support your argument."

http://www.pattersonlaw.co.uk/No-Insurance,-Pe rmitting-No-Insurance.php

[New Judge]

Yes, barry is quite right.

The difficulty you may face is that the burden of proof shifts from the prosecution to you. Although you have to achieve a lower level of proof (�on the balance of probabilities� � i.e. more likely than not � as against the prosecution�s �beyond reasonable doubt�) it will not be sufficient for you to simply repeat on oath what you have told us here.

You will be required to produce documentary evidence (perhaps in the form of the invalid insurance certificate you examined).

[paraffin]

Find out what your mate has to say on his return. If he really IS a mate, he'll put his hands up and you'll be in the clear.

If not, he's not the mate you think he is!

[davejhare]

I have my insurance documents that states I am insured to drive any other car and I have a copy of his insurance document stating that his vehicle is insured. I have spoken to my friend and he is sending a letter over stating that he gave me permission to drive the vehicle, that he gave me a copy of the insurance documents and that he was unaware that the insurance was cancelled.

[Rollo]

My insurance seem to cover me driving somebody else's car, with their permission of course, whether they have it insured or not.

[Andyvon]

I agree with Rollo. My fully comp policy also says I'm insured to drive someone else's car. In that case davejhare surely the fact that your friend is uninsured is incidental. He or she would be in trouble if it was they who were caught driving their car, but you must be insured (if your policy is valid and says the same as ours of course) in the same way that we are.

Surely the police or the court would accept that. I hope so otherwise what is the point of the insurers giving that assurance? We would also be in the same boat as you if stopped in someone else's car.

[Andyvon]

Me again! I've just read lambretta's answer to the question below this one. Lambretta seems to say that if you drive someone else's car on your insurance that car (or the owner) must also be covered under their own policy. Needs an insurance expert.

[terambulan]

The law require every vehicle on the road to be independantly insured.

[McNoodle]

No chance, you're screwed. Sorry.

[gouldc]

The issue with the driving other car part of your policy is that it only covers you to drive in an emergency - it's not meant to be used if you fancy driving a Porsche that your mates own.

If you were not driving it as an emergency (which could realistically be classed as your car breaking down and this was the only car you could use at short notice), then the special reasons may be out the window as your insurer will have to confirm to the police that they would have allowed the cover for the particular set of circumstances.

We see this quite a lot, and turn down a lot of cases.

[gouldc]

Oh and the other vehicle does have to be insured and not registered to you for the driving other cars extention to come into force.

Whether your friend was aware or not, the onus is on the driver to ensure that the vehicle is both roadworthy, and legally insured at the time.

The police would not look kindly on a tyre being bald and you not having noticed as your friend said the car was ok.

[McNoodle]

...like I said...

[gouldc]

You're a man (or woman) of many words Mcnoodle!

[davejhare]

I understand what you are saying but I can easily check if a tyre is bald, I cannot phone someones insurance company to check if the vehicle is insured as they are not allowed to tell me due to data protection.

[north star]

You will be found guilty of driving without insurance, the discussion is really about whether or not you can convince the Mags of 'special reasons not to endorse' and to avoid the points.

Is your mate aware that he could be 'done' for 'permitting' when he returns to th UK?

Was the car seized?

[davejhare]

The car was seized but now released.