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docking of tail for working purposes
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i am looking to start my own security business
with the help of my due rottweiler puppies however i am informed that the docking of tails is now illegal unless a working dog .
i no from previous security company that the docking of tails were essential due to there vulnerable grabbing position of many unwanted visitors on privet property and the dogs getting the tails caught in fences etc.
i am fully trained in the security industry with a front line SIA badge
am i able to have them docked as they will be working dogs and if so how do i go about it and if not why? and who do i appeal to
many thanks rich
with the help of my due rottweiler puppies however i am informed that the docking of tails is now illegal unless a working dog .
i no from previous security company that the docking of tails were essential due to there vulnerable grabbing position of many unwanted visitors on privet property and the dogs getting the tails caught in fences etc.
i am fully trained in the security industry with a front line SIA badge
am i able to have them docked as they will be working dogs and if so how do i go about it and if not why? and who do i appeal to
many thanks rich
Answers
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We have 4 dogs, 3 of them being Staffies. One was definitely going to be used for fighting before she was rescued. The poor little thing came to us at about 3 month's old. She was covered in facial scars, full of fleas and so dehydrated and malnourished that it's a wonder she survived. She was almost as thin as a new-born pup, but this was to suposedly "toughen her up". With much care, she grew into a beautiful dog, and I can't stand the thought of people being cruel to them, in any form. I will make a donation, as said, because I understand what you're saying. Well said princess!
After reading the article above from itmepop134, and if you are determined to dock tails......then please spray an 'ice freeze' on the tail and snip with sharp seccateurs (run a flame over blades to cleanse). Do it within 48h of birth.
http://www.ciao.co.uk/Deep_Freeze_Spray__63480 44
Am informing this method to save the pup's suffering.
http://www.ciao.co.uk/Deep_Freeze_Spray__63480 44
Am informing this method to save the pup's suffering.
Cannot be much of a 'guard' dog that lets someone get hold of its tail and 'dislodge' it from its spine!!!
If the tail is that much of a disadvantage then why do the police in the UK never dock GSD tails? I have never seen anyone get hold of a police dogs tail - even when they are used in crowd control.
Trained guard dogs face any threat full on - they don't present their bum to the offender/trespasser, and anyway the dogs handler should be behind the dog to protect its rear (or if it is running free then other dogs should be with it).
I take it when you say 'dag' you mean dog?
If the tail is that much of a disadvantage then why do the police in the UK never dock GSD tails? I have never seen anyone get hold of a police dogs tail - even when they are used in crowd control.
Trained guard dogs face any threat full on - they don't present their bum to the offender/trespasser, and anyway the dogs handler should be behind the dog to protect its rear (or if it is running free then other dogs should be with it).
I take it when you say 'dag' you mean dog?
thanks to everyone who has helped answer my question and who have donated to the ispca
many of you have been very helpful sadly there are the fair few that think this is somewhere they can stick there ore in and clearly make fun of my accented spelling Irish don't take likely of having our accent mocked to me and many others there dags and i don't see why i should change the way i speak for the likes of snobs who think there better than the working class again thanks for everyone's help and ill make sure i rate your answers for you all and i will let you all know how the birth goes
many of you have been very helpful sadly there are the fair few that think this is somewhere they can stick there ore in and clearly make fun of my accented spelling Irish don't take likely of having our accent mocked to me and many others there dags and i don't see why i should change the way i speak for the likes of snobs who think there better than the working class again thanks for everyone's help and ill make sure i rate your answers for you all and i will let you all know how the birth goes
Of all the previously docked breeds I have to say I think Rotts have one of the best tails, they are thick and meaty and hang down. Dobes and Boxers have thin whippy tails that look awful. I don't have a problem with docking provided it is done by an experienced person (not necessarily a vet!) many breeders are far more experienced in doing it than wet behind the ears vets who have just come out of vet school and do not have the experience.
Hope your bitch whelps ok and the pups all thrive. I do think however that the guidelines for guard dogs mean 5 - 7 months of training of an adult dog, rather than fully trained by the time they are 5 - 7 months old.
Hope your bitch whelps ok and the pups all thrive. I do think however that the guidelines for guard dogs mean 5 - 7 months of training of an adult dog, rather than fully trained by the time they are 5 - 7 months old.
I read a report about tail docking in Sweden (where I think it is now illegal)and it said more hunting type dogs were caused injury as their tails hadn't been docked.
Apparently (though which dog told them I have no idea) it is more painful to amputate an injured tail while the dog is asleep than dock without any form of pain relief. (think it might have included the pain after amputation too)
Apparently (though which dog told them I have no idea) it is more painful to amputate an injured tail while the dog is asleep than dock without any form of pain relief. (think it might have included the pain after amputation too)
Joking aside I did actually google working and AVMA quote
What is the current basis for carrying out preventive tail amputation/partial amputation on working dogs?
A: Some commentators consider a long tail to be a potential hazard for some breeds of working dogs. For example, it has been suggested that:
A guard dog could be seized by the tail to thwart its attack.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not saying I agree with it but that is what it said
What is the current basis for carrying out preventive tail amputation/partial amputation on working dogs?
A: Some commentators consider a long tail to be a potential hazard for some breeds of working dogs. For example, it has been suggested that:
A guard dog could be seized by the tail to thwart its attack.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not saying I agree with it but that is what it said
We had gun dogs which came to us as adults, so they were already docked, but I see no reason for it at all. The poster who spoke of police dogs retaining their tails was right. They face their "prey", and I've never heard of anyone being able to grab their tails and do serious damage.
I think it's just a personal choice itmepop, but it just seems a shame to dock for what I see as no valid reason. Some of these breeds are natural hunters - such as Rhodesian Ridgebacks, which were used during lion hunts, but they were born with tails, so it's obvious that nature saw no problem in blesing them with one.
I think it's just a personal choice itmepop, but it just seems a shame to dock for what I see as no valid reason. Some of these breeds are natural hunters - such as Rhodesian Ridgebacks, which were used during lion hunts, but they were born with tails, so it's obvious that nature saw no problem in blesing them with one.
I would have thought that there was enough adult (docked) Rotties in the rescue centres in Ireland to fund your 'security' company without breeding more.
Since the law in Ireland makes you muzzle and keep on a lead all Rotties at all times in all public places I think you are going to have a hard time of living with these dogs. The same law states that if a guard dog is not on the owners premises then it should have a handler with it at all times - why then would the handler allow the dog to be grabbed by the tail?
This is the law:
The Control of Dogs (Restriction of Certain Dogs) Regulation, S.I. No. 123 of 1991 requires that in order to keep the following types of dogs
Bandogs, American Pit Bull Terriers, Bulldogs, Bull Mastiffs, Doberman Pinschers, English Bull Terriers, German Shepherd (Alsatians), Japanese Akitas, Japanese Tosas, Rhodesian Ridgeback, ROTTWEILERS and Staffordshire Bull Terriers including any other strain or cross or every breed or type of dog so described - as specified in Regulation 4,
* It is necessary to have these dogs controlled by a sufficiently strong chain or leash not more than one metre in length and by a person over the age of 16 years of age who is capable of controlling the dog, Regulation 5.
* Further these dogs must be muzzled while in a public place, Regulation 6.
* These dogs must also have collars which identify the dog and give an address, Regulation 7.
Back to an Overview of The Control & Protection of Dogs
Q.33 Are there any exceptions to these restrictions?
Yes, Regulation 4(2) exempts dogs kept by the Garda Sioch�na and wholly used by a member in the exercise of his duties.
Since the law in Ireland makes you muzzle and keep on a lead all Rotties at all times in all public places I think you are going to have a hard time of living with these dogs. The same law states that if a guard dog is not on the owners premises then it should have a handler with it at all times - why then would the handler allow the dog to be grabbed by the tail?
This is the law:
The Control of Dogs (Restriction of Certain Dogs) Regulation, S.I. No. 123 of 1991 requires that in order to keep the following types of dogs
Bandogs, American Pit Bull Terriers, Bulldogs, Bull Mastiffs, Doberman Pinschers, English Bull Terriers, German Shepherd (Alsatians), Japanese Akitas, Japanese Tosas, Rhodesian Ridgeback, ROTTWEILERS and Staffordshire Bull Terriers including any other strain or cross or every breed or type of dog so described - as specified in Regulation 4,
* It is necessary to have these dogs controlled by a sufficiently strong chain or leash not more than one metre in length and by a person over the age of 16 years of age who is capable of controlling the dog, Regulation 5.
* Further these dogs must be muzzled while in a public place, Regulation 6.
* These dogs must also have collars which identify the dog and give an address, Regulation 7.
Back to an Overview of The Control & Protection of Dogs
Q.33 Are there any exceptions to these restrictions?
Yes, Regulation 4(2) exempts dogs kept by the Garda Sioch�na and wholly used by a member in the exercise of his duties.
Funny the SIA badge only covers Wales, Scotland and England. It is being introduced in Northern Ireland, but you can only apply for training and the badge is obtained from May 2009.
It also covers things like door staff and vehicle clamps - maybe you are going to use Rotties on the doors of nightclubs?
It also covers things like door staff and vehicle clamps - maybe you are going to use Rotties on the doors of nightclubs?
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