democracy,china and microsoft

[ajmmac]

i hear microsoft has expanded into china by providing an internet portal to allow people to set up blog sites--they won this right by agreeing to let the chinese authorities monitor and censor the sites--everyone who sets up a site must register with the gov't and words such as freedom democray etc are banned--i intend to boycott all microsoft software and change my operating system--anybody else heard of this or have any plans to protest to microsoft

[kazza12345]

why would this annoy you any more than anything else ms do?  And why should it matter.  If they dont do it someone else will.  People aren't allowed access to the internet in china, so this is a way of allowing it.  It's not like theyare decieving anyone

[acw]

I agree with kazza.  Boycotting microsoft causes more problems than it's worth - unless you own warranty-voiding conversion software.  If you're going to boycott anyone, boycott Nestle.  What they do puts lives at risks.  MS just rip people off.  And the censoring is the Chinese government's idea anyway, not MS's. 

[ajmmac]

sorry kazza but to say"If they dont do it someone else will." is a rather feeble get out and acw i already do boycott nestle--but what ms are doing are colluding with the chinese gov't in their policy of suppressing freedom of speech and anyone who oppose them are imprisoned or killed--remember tianemen--to fail to register a blog site will be a criminal offence

[acw]

ajmmac - I think kazza's point was strong actually.  I don't understand why THIS makes a difference if nothing else did before.  Morever, she is RIGHT - if MS didn't do it, someone else WOULD.  They might be "colluding with the government", or they might just be providing their service/product in a field where there is market demand in order to profit maximise for their shareholders (i.e., what the directors are bound to do).  Moreover, if you're going to sell up your microsoft computer, I hope you'll also refuse in future to buy ANYTHING made in China - the money from that would go to the government as well (well, the Chinese government makes money at the expense of its labour fource).  If you're going to do something, do it properly.  Good luck with that.   

The Chinese government is an oppressive regime.  Protesting against it is honourable, but this is a weak and pretty pathetic way to do it.  By boycotting MS in Chine you're trying to boycott capitalism and communism in one fell swoop!  There must be stronger ways to support the people of China.

PS - I was 6 when Tiannemen happened.  I realise what took place and the significance of it, but I can't honestly say I really remember it. 

PPS - If this is another thread where the question asker is just asking for approval and support from other ABers, then please just say so now, and anyone who dares to disagree will know not to bother. 

[ajmmac]

thank you acw for ur comments--although i cannot agree with everything you say it was never my intention to start a thread simply to seek approval for my position--my conscience provides that--also i never knowingly buy goods made in china or any other country or from companies who exploit poorly paid labour just as i boycotted south african produce while apartheid existed--i accept it is a small personal gesture but feel there is little else to do--i just felt it was an issue people should be aware of and to examine their own consciences--the internet after all is supposed to be free and open to all

[kazza12345]

who said so? not defending ms here, but surely they are providing internet access to those who do not have it?  Having access to the internet is not an inalienable "right" to human beings, is it?

[kazza12345]

btw, my internet access isn't free!

[OBonio]

MS are unethical. They have no moral code. As long as they make money, they are happy. Doesn't matter how, just as long as they do.

Also, it's predicted in 10 years time China will have the strongest economy in the world. Of course MS want to be friends with them!

[acw]

And why should MS do anything other than make money?  (By the way I'm playing devil's advocate here!)  The economic purpose of a company is to make money for its shareholders.  So long as a business is making money it's happy - that applies to ALL companies.  Do not be fooled by ANY corporate social responsibility programmes- it's ALL a marketing ploy to sell more product and make more profit!!!

[twiglet4frog]

microsoft is aiding the chinese government CORRECT

BUT they are aiding them come into the 21st century with giving the chinese people the chance to progress and develop with internet and information.

Without the help of MS they would be further behind and the people struggling to catch the rest of the world. It isnt MS fault that the people are repressed by their government, it is the governements! MS is a company that has seen 1.2 billion possible customers suddeny become available! If it is such a huge problem that the chinese people are repressed then our own government should but kicking up a fuss, not a company that sells computer software!

Remember also that until a couple of years ago the idea of nightclubs, drinking and pop music was also considered a major no-no in china and now they are slowly relaxing it.

China is trying to head towards western approaches but in a slow and controlled manor and considering that western internet is uncontrolled and has so far caused some areas to abuse that such as pirate download sites, child porn, racist and hate sites.....is it any wonder that china see's this as a worry and wants to limit there countries involment in the world wide web to begin with???

[acw]

Well said twigletfrog!

[ricki]

Other people have made very good answers.
I agree with the point of view that commercial companies are There to make money for their stockholders, and that ethics shouldn't enter into it. If we think they shouldn't be allowed to do it a law should be passed, that is what laws are there for, its that simple. If there is no law, or if a law can't be made, that is where a change should be made, not at the company "ethics" level.
In this situation, international law says china can do what it wants, so, ethically, I agree with twiglet, people having some blogging capability is better than having no ability.