Arranged Marriages

[Bubble]

What are the benefits? the setbacks?

[El D]

I am passionately against arranged marriages and think they should be exposed for the abuse of basic human dignity that they are.

The benefits are the political and social bonuses from knowing in advance that your daughter/son will marry into wealth or privilege or at least security.

The setbacks are that such practises should have died out in the Middle ages and no amount of bleating about culture will ever convince me differently. If people are not free to choose their own partner they are not free. If they are not free then they are a form of slave even if they do not realise it. It is an archaic and horrifically small minded practise. Outlaw it and ensure those who practise it are punished. We must progress and not be held back by absurd outdated practises.

[indian]

I agree you shouldn't go through with it if you don't want to but somr people actually choose to have one out of their own free will, so it's up to the individual i say.

[Dark Angel]

Being introduced to someone with intent to marriage, but leaving it upto the two people to decide what they want is different to just enforcing a marriage on your son or daughter, just going by family backgrounds, wealth, or the matching of their horoscopes.

[artee]

I had asked several Indian ladies about this some time ago Bubble, and they all said that they do have a high degree of success with these marriages, One of them said that they have such deep respect for their parents that they would not dream of opposing them, and that love for their husbands came after,  as time went on. Of course we know that the opposite must happen as well. They did seem happy...

[Lindylou]

When I was a teenager (many years ago) I had a good friend whose family was Iranian.  They sent her back to Iran to marry a friend of her father's - who was the same age as her father.  She even thought she was going to be a 'second' wife!  I told her to refuse and, if necessary, run away and hide but she said her father/brothers/uncle would find her and kill her for dishonouring the family.  I often think of her and wonder how she is.  I suppose I'll never know!

[El D]

So Artee, they are emotionally or physically blackmailed into the marriage and then make the best of a bad job. Anyone happy under such circumstances is merely a product of cultural indoctrination.

[Clanad]

I'd have to ask why El D, believes he/she is the arbiter of cultural differences?  Each culture has developed, over hundreds if not thousands of years, those institutions and practises that work for them.  I'm struck by the reverence displayed in other cultures for their elders... something which our western culture has, by and large, discraded.  If a woman (or a man for that matter) doesn't have a problem with the arrangement, why should we judge that harshly?  It would appear that the cultural indoctrination, in which El D has been immersed is one that he/she deems superior and should be in place, even if by force...

[Dark Angel]

I agree with you Clanad. Its just not possible to generalise arranged marriages and term it "emotional and physical blackmail". Arranged marriages work for some and they don't for others, just like there's a probability of a so- called "love marriage" either breaking up or surviving.

The same goes for generalising mixed-race/caste/faith marriages, and marriages where the partners have a wide age difference between them - works for some, doesn't for others.

[El D]

Can you define culture? As far as I'm concerned it's simply a collection of social values and customs that has 'enabled' human civilisation. Something's age is completely irrelevant to it's value. That's why we no longer use stone axes or take steam trains - their value has decreased because technology has allowed us to maintain higher standards. I respect the elderly, however does that mean they are always right? Not at all, and it would be foolish to assume that age correlates to wisdom or correctness.

I personally believe the values to which I alluded, human dignity, freedom of choice, the right to choose your partner, are some of the basic entitlements of human beings. If there was a culture that espoused slavery, and the slaves that were part of that culture were perfectly happy in that role because they knew no different, would you be happy to sit back and allow their culture its freedom? what about cannibalism? Or child sacrifice? There are some values that transcend culture and indeed all differences between the various creeds, colours and customs of humanity and I am far happier standing for them than sitting on the fence and refusing to pass judgement while people suffer.

As for whether the arrangement works, it's completely irrelevant (e.g. slavery) if there are infringements of basic human rights. There is not need to arranged marriage in civilised society, ban it, exactly the same as the caste system. These people are relics of medieval belief systems - time to move on.

[Clanad]

For El D... wonderful use of straw men for an argument.  We weren't discussing cannabilism or any of the other destructive behaviors that you cite, to my knowledge.  Your views on this subject are a product of your cultural customs and values.  Hence, it's perfectly acceptable to you and western culture to have a divorce rate of over 50%. It can be demonstrated that the belief that marriage should be based on romantic love and attraction really didn't develop until the middle ages.  Prior to that, marriage generally benifited the man and women mutually, but it wasn't based on our cultural notion of romantic love.  In those societies that practice arranged marriages, the family unit is usually more stable and the divorce rate much less than ours, accoding to statistics.  Obviously, there are other factors involved.  Evidence indicates that couples whose marriages are arranged accoding to age old custom become friends first, with a deeper, abiding love developing over time.  I find it difficult to condem this and I don't think, on the whole, those involved in such marriages find them abusive...

[Dark Angel]

EI D - ha! ha! your answer did make me laugh. Equating slaves and victims of cannibals to couples who have arranged marriages, is so incongruent. One could imagine that a couple accept an arranged marriage and even find happiness therein, but how can anyone imagine that a slave could be happy, well being a slave, and how can anybody think, cannibalism is practiced in this country, so its ok Mr. cannibal, you can eat me!!!!

[El D]

I find nothing incongruent about it, it's a perfectly logical analogy, not a strawman. The practises I mention are all accepted in their own, dare I say, incredibly ancient cultures, which presumably means it works or worked for them. You say that we have no right to judge from the outside looking in - I say we do based on civilisation and human rights (do you understand now Dark Angel . . .) I do not see how you can justify the arrangement of a man and woman not having the freedom to select a partner they feel comfortable with beforehand to spend the rest of their lives with.

The divorce rate is completely irrelevant, except as an example not that they are more stable, but that they are more of a convention than western marriage in this day and age. What matters is the freedom of choice subject to no pressure from parents or otherwise. Yes, as I have already said they are free to enter into arranged marriages should they make the choice, what I do not agree with is the pressure placed on them, both culturally and socially, to make that choice.

[justineo]

My partner comes from a culture where marriages are arranged and he was the only one out of his five siblings who did not marry in that way. It caused many years of anguish for him and his family and I think he would agree with El D on many points.  We recently read an article about girls as young as 12 and 13 being forced into marriage, in India, to avoid their families having to look after them.  That isn't about two people growing to love each other.  I feel sick when I think of the girls and women living in such servitude.  El D, remember though that you and I are also exposed to cultural indoctrination and are basing our judgments accordingly.

[El D]

I realise that, however it depends whether you think the values I have listed are a result of cultural indoctrination or a more humane and civilised view of the world where all people are free to act as they choose. If this is not something that all cultures aspire to then what is the point of them except to enshrine archaic customs and protect them from the progress of civilisation.

[Dark Angel]

justineo - I'm totally against that type of marriage where underage people, ie. children are married off because their parents can't look after them.

Also at whatever age, the two parties must be attracted to each other. Its only the other aspects like checking family backgrounds (so the two parties know that they are not getting married to an axe murderer) that are left upto the parents/older people.