Next of kin question

[needhelp1000]

My Brother died intestate, he left a daughter aged 8 and an ex wife.
The mother now says the daughter is next of kin and is demanding her solicitor deals with probate.
He left a lot of debt including a joint mortgage.
Our Mother is being kept out of all decisions and wants to know if she should be next of kin and not his estanged wife representing their 8 year old daughter

[Beauj]

Hi needhelp, sorry, probably not the answer you want to hear, but it would be his daughter as she is his only 'issue'. Your ex sister in law may be representing her daughter but any 'estate' left by your brother would go into a trust fund until his daughter was old enough to be given it. The wife couldn't touch it. However, any monies he may have had, would be used firstly to pay of his debts. For example, if he has an insurance policy covering his half of a mortgage, any surplus from that would form part of his estate. Who did he have the joint mortgage with? & was your brother divorced from his wife? - If not, she may still be entitiled to claim his estate. Who dealt with the arrangements and paid for his funeral? If it was your Mum, she may well be out pocket over it.

[tamborine]

If the mother paid for the funeral she could claim the cost from the estate.

[needhelp1000]

The mortgage was in both names and had not been settled. It survives him and appears to fall to her. We as his family wanted nothing out of this but his funeral expenses. He is still with the coroner and she has even interfered with this.
We merely wanted to lay him to rest at the expense of his estate as neither my mother or myself have the means to pay.
She has now told the coroner to deal with her only and this has left my mother distraught. We now no longer know who can register his death and arrange his funeral.
A real mess

[Beauj]

Yes, your right love, it is an awful mess. I've being stuck in the middle of two similar cases in the past - my fathers and 6 months later my mothers passing. & I know only too well what it's like when others step in to push you out.

I take it that your brother and his wife were not divorced and that is why she can give instructions to the coroner? Best sometimes to step back and let them get on with it. You need to be there for your Mum at the moment as I am sure she is brokenheart as it is without all that nonesense going on.

The wife will HAVE to register the death, because she will need the certificate for the burial. And even if she makes all the arrangments, she cannot stop your family from attending. Just keep your dignity for the sake of your brother and his wee girl. You have a hard time in-front of you and all you can do is bite your tongue and pray.

As you say, your not in a position to pay out the cost of the funeral, so let her get on with it, the last thing you need is to be left with the bill and then having to try and claim it back from your brothers estate, which would be a long process.

I hope that the ex will respect any wishes you have, afterall, he was a son and a brother long before he was a husband.

[needhelp1000]

She is his Ex wife, they where divorced but she is using the fact that she is the daughters guardian to force the point. As she and her solicitor have decided his daughter is next of kin she seems to think it's oaky to ride roughshod over the fact he was also my brother and my mothers son.
We had already agreed she could let her solicitor sort it all out but as we where told by the police we could remove anything of value from his unnatended home we are now being made out almost as theives.
I have advised my Mum that we should return eveything and let her solicitor take the load.
It's rediculous that my Mother should be put through this mess

[Beauj]

Yes, | would agree with you, pass it back to her solicitor, you only acted in good faith as per advice from the police, so as to safeguard your Bothers belongings. You most certainly are not theives, and anyone trying to lable you as such would need to be very carefull in what they say - you can always call on the police to back you up.

It is disgraceful that your Mum and family are being put through all of this when what you need to be doing now is grieving for your brother. I think you have it pretty well sorted in your own mind as to what the ex is like, and as what will happen next.

As I said previous, step back and let her get on with it, things change very quickly and she may be looking your help before very long. I hope your Mum and your family will be able to pay their last respects in the way you feel you'd like. God Bless

[buildersmate]

I am going to offer what I believe to be the legal answer, not the 'what's best for the relationships' answer.
Without a Will, there is a set sequence in which surviving relatives can apply to the courts for Letters Of Administration - the legal document required to be able to deal with the affairs of the deceased.
The sequence is, I believe:
1) surviving spouse
2) children over 18
3) the parents of the deceased
Since the ex-wife is no longer the spouse, and the daughter is under 18, I believe that your mother has the first right to apply for LoA, if she wishes. This is nothing to do with next-of-kin, or decisions about the future welfare of the child - it is about the law of intestacy.
I also thought that the Probate Service application forms asked specific questions such that the Probate Service don't agree to the wrong person being appointed with LoA, unless a prior claimant has renounced their right?

[needhelp1000]

Thanks all

I contacted our solicitor today and told them to hand the whole shebang over to her solicitor.

My Mum can't cope and after a tirade from a member of the other family she has been left very stressed. Unfortunately I live the other side of the country so cannot be by her side.

I have asked her to let them sort out the mess and leave us out of it.

[Beauj]

In your cirumstances, I think you have made the best decision.

Buildersmate is 100% right as regards to approaching it from the legal end, however, from my own experience, it was not only a long drawn out affair, - which mentally not everyone can deal with at the time - but it was also very costly for me when it came to paying the legal bills! Albeit, I ended up taking my only sister to Court and even though her solicitor was almost struck off the Bar, she still came out on top.

It is hard to deal with these issues at such times and when you are so close to the deceased, it is maybe better, as I said before, to just get on with your own grieving process and let the 'greedy' fend for themselves! God Be With You ALl at this sad time.

[Beauj]

Sorry, that should have read ALL not Ali!

& I meant to say, don't let your Mum put her name to any sort of 'Bill', as she may be left with paying it. I give that advice from my own experience.