News3 mins ago
Taxpayers' Money Spent Wisely?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-120016 8/Disgraced-bank-chief-Fred-Shred-Browns-Chequ ers-guest-list.html
Browsing the attached list of those who have gorged themselves at taxpayers' expense, including failed bankers and celebrities, was this yet another crass misjudgement by our PM Gordon Brown?
Browsing the attached list of those who have gorged themselves at taxpayers' expense, including failed bankers and celebrities, was this yet another crass misjudgement by our PM Gordon Brown?
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It was no secret that Brown had a cosy relationship with the City. As the credit crunch seemingly caught everyone by surprise it is not a shock to learn that these people were entertained before things went pear shaped.
Chequers is the country residence of the Prime Minister and over the years many dodgy characters have been invited there, the Dictator and torturer General Pinochet springs to mind.
Not sure why the PM has to entertain at Chequers at all, waste of money, always has been.
Chequers is the country residence of the Prime Minister and over the years many dodgy characters have been invited there, the Dictator and torturer General Pinochet springs to mind.
Not sure why the PM has to entertain at Chequers at all, waste of money, always has been.
jake:
Stop living in the past. That just avoids the issue of this question.
Gromit:
Similar comment to you. And as for the credit crunch remark, the article clearly states how the RBS was already in serious trouble under Sir Fred's "leadership".
The question's about Mr Brown's judgement as PM, and if this is an example of whom he considers to be ideal dinner guests at one of his official residences, what does it say about his competence to lead the country?
Stop living in the past. That just avoids the issue of this question.
Gromit:
Similar comment to you. And as for the credit crunch remark, the article clearly states how the RBS was already in serious trouble under Sir Fred's "leadership".
The question's about Mr Brown's judgement as PM, and if this is an example of whom he considers to be ideal dinner guests at one of his official residences, what does it say about his competence to lead the country?
I was answering the Taxpayers' Money Spent Wisely? question and I answered in the negative.
RBS was in trouble the moment they bought ABN amro in 2007, at the time it looked like good business. With hindsight it wasn't.
Similarly, when Brown invited him, he hadn't then failed so spectacularly, so again hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Brown is guilty of some very poor judgement, but in this instance, at the time his judgement was OK.
RBS was in trouble the moment they bought ABN amro in 2007, at the time it looked like good business. With hindsight it wasn't.
Similarly, when Brown invited him, he hadn't then failed so spectacularly, so again hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Brown is guilty of some very poor judgement, but in this instance, at the time his judgement was OK.
paraffin
The article says Goodwin was a guest in 2008 months before he resigned. He resigned in October.
In early in 2008, no one knew the banks were going to go titsup in the Autumn. When Goodwin was invited, he was the Chief Executive of one of the largest banks in the country. It was only later that we all became aware of the lousy job he was doing. On the available evidence, Brown had no reason to suspect Goodwin was mismanaging the bank.
If anyone showed a misjudgement, it was the people who appointed him to Chief Executive of RBS.
The article says Goodwin was a guest in 2008 months before he resigned. He resigned in October.
In early in 2008, no one knew the banks were going to go titsup in the Autumn. When Goodwin was invited, he was the Chief Executive of one of the largest banks in the country. It was only later that we all became aware of the lousy job he was doing. On the available evidence, Brown had no reason to suspect Goodwin was mismanaging the bank.
If anyone showed a misjudgement, it was the people who appointed him to Chief Executive of RBS.
Sorry I didn't think it was a serious question.
You seem to be muddling up issues about whether Taxpayers money should be spent wining and dining the great and the good and whether Goodwin was someone Gordon Brown should have been associated with.
I would think it was entirely appropriate for any Prime Minister to invite the movers and shakers - I'm sure if Cameron gets his hands on Chequers you'll see him doing the same.
As for Goodwin I think Gromit has already given you an answer there.
Frankly I think it's a pretty weak piece of trouble making and "preaching to the choir" from the Mule.
Don't they have anything better to report on like the fall in the number of murders in the crime statistics.
Or would writing something positive about the Government get a journalist sacked there do you think?
A thought crime
You seem to be muddling up issues about whether Taxpayers money should be spent wining and dining the great and the good and whether Goodwin was someone Gordon Brown should have been associated with.
I would think it was entirely appropriate for any Prime Minister to invite the movers and shakers - I'm sure if Cameron gets his hands on Chequers you'll see him doing the same.
As for Goodwin I think Gromit has already given you an answer there.
Frankly I think it's a pretty weak piece of trouble making and "preaching to the choir" from the Mule.
Don't they have anything better to report on like the fall in the number of murders in the crime statistics.
Or would writing something positive about the Government get a journalist sacked there do you think?
A thought crime
Sorry, Gromit, you're trying to have your cake and eat it:
Your postings:
13:10 "RBS was in trouble the moment they bought ABN amro in 2007"
BUT:
14:15 "In early 2008, no one knew the banks were going to go titsup(sic)in the Autumn."
If you took the trouble to read the article, you'd find that the guest list referred to was dated April 2008-April 2009. Not quite "early 2008"? Plus, it goes on to say: "Downing Street would not disclose the precise dates of the invitations."
I think, therefore, these facts allied with my post at 13:52 show clearly that Mr Brown's judgement it is fair to say was at least flawed.
Your comment about who decided to appoint Fred the Shred to RBS CEO is irrelevant.
Your postings:
13:10 "RBS was in trouble the moment they bought ABN amro in 2007"
BUT:
14:15 "In early 2008, no one knew the banks were going to go titsup(sic)in the Autumn."
If you took the trouble to read the article, you'd find that the guest list referred to was dated April 2008-April 2009. Not quite "early 2008"? Plus, it goes on to say: "Downing Street would not disclose the precise dates of the invitations."
I think, therefore, these facts allied with my post at 13:52 show clearly that Mr Brown's judgement it is fair to say was at least flawed.
Your comment about who decided to appoint Fred the Shred to RBS CEO is irrelevant.
paraffin
You are being a bit slow here. Buying ABN was a mistake that led to RBS' problems a year later.
The bank knew they had made a mistake but they were not going to tell anyone. When Goodwin was invited, he was a respected Chief Executive of a large bank. In April 2008 the collapse of the banks in the Autumn could not have been predicted by Brown or the Bank of England. Only RBS could have known they were in deep trouble, but they would obviously keep this secret
It is complete hindsight to say Goodwin's invitation was a misjudgement.
The decade of the Labour Party cosying up to the City was the misjudgement, not the Goodwin invite.
You are being a bit slow here. Buying ABN was a mistake that led to RBS' problems a year later.
The bank knew they had made a mistake but they were not going to tell anyone. When Goodwin was invited, he was a respected Chief Executive of a large bank. In April 2008 the collapse of the banks in the Autumn could not have been predicted by Brown or the Bank of England. Only RBS could have known they were in deep trouble, but they would obviously keep this secret
It is complete hindsight to say Goodwin's invitation was a misjudgement.
The decade of the Labour Party cosying up to the City was the misjudgement, not the Goodwin invite.
Gromit:
Please, don't "be afraid": it's a sign of weakness.
How can it be a "non story"? Frittering away many thousands of pounds of taxpayers' money in the lead up to and throughout the most severe world recession for many a year can not be insolently dismissed as such. The writing was on the wall long before the recession began to bite in the Autumn of 2008. You're trying to claim that a man with Mr Brown's vast experience of global finances was totally ignorant of what was around the corner?
You continue to deliberately ignore the point I made in my 13:52 post. Besides, Fred the Shred is but one who enjoyed No 10's hospitality in these austere times. Mr Brown continued to lavish our money on every Tom Dick and Harry when thousands still were losing their homes and livelihoods. And still are.
"cosying up" is not an exclusive trait of the Labour Party, it is a ploy in which both they and their biggest rivals are well versed.
During his 10? years as Chancellor, Mr Brown's favourite word when delivering his Budgets was "prudence". He lamentably failed to follow his own advice whilst regaling this motley crew courtesy of those of us who still pay our taxes in good old Blighty. A severe misjudgement at the very least.
Please, don't "be afraid": it's a sign of weakness.
How can it be a "non story"? Frittering away many thousands of pounds of taxpayers' money in the lead up to and throughout the most severe world recession for many a year can not be insolently dismissed as such. The writing was on the wall long before the recession began to bite in the Autumn of 2008. You're trying to claim that a man with Mr Brown's vast experience of global finances was totally ignorant of what was around the corner?
You continue to deliberately ignore the point I made in my 13:52 post. Besides, Fred the Shred is but one who enjoyed No 10's hospitality in these austere times. Mr Brown continued to lavish our money on every Tom Dick and Harry when thousands still were losing their homes and livelihoods. And still are.
"cosying up" is not an exclusive trait of the Labour Party, it is a ploy in which both they and their biggest rivals are well versed.
During his 10? years as Chancellor, Mr Brown's favourite word when delivering his Budgets was "prudence". He lamentably failed to follow his own advice whilst regaling this motley crew courtesy of those of us who still pay our taxes in good old Blighty. A severe misjudgement at the very least.
Getting a bit bored with this post so this will be my last attempt.
The article clearly states: "RBS was in the throes of the credit crunch and was writing down billions in losses."
That's not hindsight, it's fact.
It is hindsight. When Goodwin was invited to Chequers the extent and seriousness of the banks' losses were not known. Only later in the Autumn were their record breaking losses revealed.
No one in April 2008 knew RBS was near to collapse. Not the Bank of England, not the treasury, not the FSA, but apparently you did.
Brown has made a lot of mistakes, but trying to make a big thing that he met with Goodwin before his demise is pretty weak stuff.
The article clearly states: "RBS was in the throes of the credit crunch and was writing down billions in losses."
That's not hindsight, it's fact.
It is hindsight. When Goodwin was invited to Chequers the extent and seriousness of the banks' losses were not known. Only later in the Autumn were their record breaking losses revealed.
No one in April 2008 knew RBS was near to collapse. Not the Bank of England, not the treasury, not the FSA, but apparently you did.
Brown has made a lot of mistakes, but trying to make a big thing that he met with Goodwin before his demise is pretty weak stuff.
Gromit:
For someone "getting a bit bored with this post" which you also describe as a "non story" and "pretty weak stuff", you've seen fit to comment on it about half a dozen times?
As well as "early 2008" or "April 2008", to which you conveniently choose to refer, what about the other 11 months in which these excesses took place? Did they not continue for at least six months even after the country, and indeed world, had slumped into recession?
Anyway, thank you for your "last attempt" which was just as unconvincing as "Prudence" Brown's judgement on the subject of this thread.
You're either an extremely wealthy individual unaffected by this cancer, or you don't reside in the UK, or both? There again, with it being global, perhaps you're in cloud cuckoo land?
For someone "getting a bit bored with this post" which you also describe as a "non story" and "pretty weak stuff", you've seen fit to comment on it about half a dozen times?
As well as "early 2008" or "April 2008", to which you conveniently choose to refer, what about the other 11 months in which these excesses took place? Did they not continue for at least six months even after the country, and indeed world, had slumped into recession?
Anyway, thank you for your "last attempt" which was just as unconvincing as "Prudence" Brown's judgement on the subject of this thread.
You're either an extremely wealthy individual unaffected by this cancer, or you don't reside in the UK, or both? There again, with it being global, perhaps you're in cloud cuckoo land?
When they put these high fliers on a pedestal and later rather than admit they have made a mistake brush it under the carpet.
Maybe it dates back to our colonial past. The awarding of knighthoods, gongs, and awards should be consigned to the bin What other country is so class ridden putting us all into hierarchial boxes. Shouldn't the salary be enough?
It's a good case for getting rid of royalty and become a republic. Then we can all call ourselves Mr or Mrs.
Maybe it dates back to our colonial past. The awarding of knighthoods, gongs, and awards should be consigned to the bin What other country is so class ridden putting us all into hierarchial boxes. Shouldn't the salary be enough?
It's a good case for getting rid of royalty and become a republic. Then we can all call ourselves Mr or Mrs.
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