Oliver Cromwell & a monkey

[Kelvin]

I was told in all seriousness that when he was a baby, Oliver Cromwell was carried off to the roof of the family home by a pet monkey! Any basis in historical fact?

[paraffin]

"a great man" ? Not to the Scots and Irish.

[jake-the-peg]

He was a great man the way Napoleon was.

They are both people who defy our attempts to simply pigeon- hole them into neat labels like "Good" or "Bad"

[Ankou]

�a great man the way napoleon was� ?

i don�t recall napoleon being exhumed and having a posthumous execution with his body being hanged in chains then thrown into a pit, while his severed head was displayed on a pole for 24 years and then passed around like a hot potato before being sold in the 19th c. and then eventually buried.

he is very popular with the french though. i suppose you can have that.

the story about the monkey could be true, but is likely just to be a tale of an individual marked out by providence for leadership on the same scale as his alleged boyhood biffing with charles as a foretelling of things to come.

[jake-the-peg]

Yes well Given that the country decided to invite Charles II back it's not surprising Cromwell got rather badly treated even after his death!

Of course Charles spent huge amount's of the countries money, fought and lost a disasterous war with the dutch before handing the Crown to his brother who was so hated he was chased out of Britain.

Cromwell was a great man because he had the vision of a country ruled without kings by good people elected from the country.

350 years ago! Over 100 year before the American revolution, - before the enlightenment before the French revolution.

He just couldn't bring it about and it all went wrong and he had to take the reigns of power himself.

I'm sure we're all aware of his failings

But certain history buffs like to look at people in a simple pantomime "good guys and bad guys" manner judging them by todays moral standards.

Frankly that's moronic and some people like Napoleon and Cromwell and Julius Caesar stand above that and just can't be catagorised in such a manner.

They're not Good or Bad but they are Great

[paraffin]

"great"? To whom? Why? Which of his "achievements", if any, merit him being labelled as "great"?

There are many people who would rather describe him as "notorious". As I intimated previously, he most certainly could not be described as "great" in the eyes of the Scots and Irish. But, perhaps their opinions would not count in the eyes of certain people?

[Dina73]

what happened to the monkey?

[jake-the-peg]

How many other people completely changed the constitutional basis of this countries Government parafin?

William I
Henry II
Those responsible for the Glorious revolution
William Pitt
Lloyd George perhaps

And Cromwell

It's a short list

Before Cromwell Kings rules with absolute power divinely appointed by God.

After him they didn't.

That's a pretty big achievement for any man

We won't even go into his influence on this countries Army.

[paraffin]

jake:

"this countries(sic) Government"

Which country's Government? Let me guess: England?

Here's a few more of his "achievements":

Regicide / Dictator / Genocide.

[ladyalex]

And he knocked a hole in our local castle with his cannon.....
You can still see it.....

[Haggisdj]

lol @ Dina73 and ladyalex

[Whickerman]

in the same way, in a couple of hundred years Hitler will most likely fall into this pigeon hole of "great military mind, pity about the genocide..." along with Ghengis Khan and Napoleon?

Sorry, you can't overlook the fact that Cromwell - despite being a political and military giant - was a tyrant and a murderer, regardless of his religious or political beliefs. And I know "it was the way of the time" but tell that to the innocents massacred in, for example, Drogheda and Wexford.

[Whickerman]

sorry - don't know about the monket but good story!