Scrap or repair ???

[diane2210]

Please help, we have had a very large machine damaged by hitting a motorway bridge by the hauliers when they delivered and as a consequence our land contaminated by the loss of used hydraulic fliud.
Because we purchased this machine very cheaply at auction the loss adjuster is only prepared to give us back our money we paid, less the excess payable by the haulage Co and will NOT consider the contamination costs (which are many many thousands of �) Nor will they pay for the repair of the machine because that cost is MORE than we paid for the machine, IS THIS CORRECT????
We want this machine or another, we have furnished the loss adjuster with comparables, but because these are many thousands more � he will NOT consider this.
Please HELP
Diane

[woozer]

First - I would suggest that you hold the haulier responsiblefor the pollution damage and the damage to the machinery and also any loss of revenue caused by this incident. There is no excuse for hitting a motorway bridge (afterall they do not hide and suddenly pop up unexpectedly) and the haulier is responsible for the safety of the load.
Unless you have new for old cover on your policy it is unlikley that you could claim more for the machine than you paid for it - but hopefully you would get something for loss of profit or revenue.

I dont know how much this claim is likely to be for but it might be worth your while speaking to a properly independent claims adjuster - if this is a significant commercial claim do you not have a broker to help you ?

[woozer]

Sorry - the keys keep sticking on this lap top - hence the dodgy spelling and words missed out- I meant to say a properly qualified independent assessor working for you - but they do not come free so make sure you understand their costs - we often recommend a firm we know well to our clients and they invariable maximise the amount paid to our clients

[diane2210]

Hi This is Diane again,
Sorry I have not made it clear
1) We have held the haulier responsible, he has instructed his Insurance Co that has employed an assessor.

We have NO insurance on this machine ( as it was not on site when accident happened, we planned on insuring upon delivery) So therefore we have no Insurance Co working on our behalf.
We have requested the name of the hauliers Insurance Co many times, so that we could contact direct to complain about the delays to date ( accident happened on 12/5/09) and have NOT been given the name.
The assessor wrote a letter and gave us the option outlined above, and went on holiday not now due back until mid Aug 09 and no one else at his office will deal in his absents.
I am at a loss as to the legal position, and feel I am being "pushed" into a Court situation, but because of the costs involved ( this is not a small claims proceedure) I just feel I wont be able to afford this, I feel very bullied, and dont know what to do or who to turn to for help for a problem that was not my doing and is out of my control, even though liability has been accepted by the driver and the Insurance Co I will still be VERY MUCH OUT OF POCKET
Thanks for any suggestions Diane

[woozer]

Send a recorded delivery letter to the Third Party stating that you hold them legally liable for X Y Z and that you will commence court action against them within 14 days to recover your losses - the threat often produces a result.
It would not be reasonable to try and give you the technical advice you need on this site - I believe that DAS will provide after the event cover for uninsured losses they dont just deal with car claims !- a local broker should be able to help you contact them. If these ideas fail then I would also suggests you contact a firm of assessors such as Hamilton Bond in Worcester - I dont work for them but I have used them in the past with excellent results. They do charge but whenever I have used them the client has more than covered their fees with the enhancment of their claim - good luck

[diane2210]

Many thanks for your help, We have already threatened Court action, but it has fallen on deaf ears.
I will try DAS and also the Co named as assessors.
I am so grateful to you for your assistance, I just wish I felt a little more confident all I really want is the machine working, and the contamination cleared up, surely thats not too much to ask.
The haulage Co had the nerve to send me an invoice for the haulage charge ( something I definatly will NOT pay until this situation is cleared up.)

[bednobs]

hiya, i wonder if the trouble yu are having is because you can't prove that the hitting the otorway bridge was what caused the hydraulic fluid to leak on your land? Presumably, there was a considerable time lag beteen it hittng the bidge and being delivered to you?
if the bridge caused the damage, how come the fluid hadn't all leaked out then?
As you purchased the machine at auction, how do you knw that the leak wasn't present before you bought it? (for example, could this bewhy it was so cheap?)
Anyway, that is what i'd be thinking if i was a weasley insurance company

[diane2210]

Hi Diane Again

Some of the fluid leaked at the time of impact ( this could be seen by the state of the machine upon delivery)
But in order to remove it from the low loader, the boom had to be lifted off the bed of the lorry first, and this is when the fluid spewed out ( it was then under pressure) and machine had to be started in order to lift the boom and then drive vehicle off low loader.
The lorry driver ( having caused all this trouble) was insisting he get back to Nottingham as his tachograph was running.
Had I realised I was going to have this trouble I would have insisted that the machine remain on the low loader, and the driver just take the Cab back to Nottingham, that would have given them just a taste of the inconvienience I have experienced to date, so any further suggestions please and I am all ears
Thanks Diane

[bednobs]

hiya, sorry me again!
Please understand i am just trying to think like a barsteward insurance company
Had you started the machine at all before you took it off the lowloader? Perhaps they are trying to assert that the machine was already in this state?

Anyway, what a bummer for you! I presume you are a farmer or constructor? Do you have household insurance that might help? (some of them have extra legal protection) or any insurance yourself that might cover accidental damage to your land?
Have you had a quote for the removal and disposal of contaminated land? the only course of action i can see is to refuse to settle and keep persuing the firm. i do worry about your comment of not paying them though - you may find they start legal proceedings against you!

[diane2210]

Hi there Bednobs

This is a site ( yard I own) some 12 miles from my home therefore my home legal protection insurance would not apply.

No we had NOT started the machine up before it was removed from the lowloader, but it was working fine before it was purchased at auction and before it was loaded, otherwise it would be impossible to load.
This machine has to weigh somewhere about 10 /15 tonne.
As regards them starting action against me for non payment of their transport invoice, I surely hope they do, that way I can counterclaim against them for the problems caused.
The costs of repair is many thousands of � and the clean up for the contaminated land is many more thousands of � they have had all quotes, and have accepted liability, but do NOT accept the quotes ( quotes from machine manufacturer) I have supplied, I have repeatedly advised them that the quotes for the machine repairs actually cost money ( this machine is some 16ft tall and requires scaffolding to obtain a quote because of health and safety rules) I have also requested they produce further quotes as I am "paying " for quotes on top of having a machine damaged, land contaminated, and they will NOT reimburse these costs.
Please advise anyone
Thanks bednobs, hope I have explained better now
Regards Diane

[bednobs]

it is still worth you looking at your household policy - when i said some of them have legal cover, i don't just mean for things relating to the home - for example my uncle was taken to court by an ex employer and got legal advice and representation through his household insurance

[themas]

If liability has been accepted it seems to me they are liable to put you into the position you would have been in if the collision with the bridge had not happened. If the evidence shows that the accident caused the contamination to occur then they should be liable for the clean up costs. How they can deny liability for repair I just cannot understand - the cost you paid seems to be to be utterly irrelevant - they caused the damage and should pay to repair it.

Certainly do what woozer suggests, and do check your own policies as legal expenses cover is not just limited to occurrences on the property. You could also try phoning the Insurance Ombudsman to see if they can give you any advice on how to proceed - they might at least be able to tell you whether you have any right to know the name of the haulier's insurer and whether they would consider a complaint by you. (On the first of these, I am amazed the loss adjuster can write a letter on behalf of his client - the insurer - without telling you who his client is; on the second I do not know whether the Ombudsman is limited to dealing with complaints by policyholders about their own insurers.)

[diane2210]

Many Thanks Tehmas

Your thoughts are identical to mine, but its being able to persue these is the problem.

I have sent an e mail to DAS outlining briefly the story now waiting for a response about Insurance after the accident also.
I am quite confident that this assessor is pushing his luck, assumming I will NOT go to court on this problem, and attempting to push me to the limit, and then pay up,
( possibley before it gets to court but) but how much is the question, ???and how much time and cost will a court battle be in the meantime????.
Many thanks for your continued interest and help, anyone got any different views please, is there something I am missing here?
Kind Regards
Diane