Money gifts to kids

[suem]

How can my mom in law give her family money to avoid her having to pay for care in the future? She is mid seventies and a little frail at the moment and is worried sick about her life savings (about £50,00) being used to pay for what she feels she has already being paying for for all of her life and that of her late husband who died without having been into care. The house has already been owned by her daughters for about ten years since dad died. There must be a way! Leagle or not!
I`m sure rich people have ways of doing it ,so how do we?
Martin
Suem

[tamborine]

Gift the money through Bonds to others, at her demise.

[hc4361]

Rich people would rather pay for the care of their choice than avoid fees and be reliant on the local authority. I don't see why the tax payer should pay just to line her children's pockets.

[redcrx]

surely both her and her family would prefer she spent the money on care in nice surroundings or even continued care at home (thats if she'd need it) than risk having to accept any place available through the council?

Also, i think that being seen to deliberatly dispose of assets rather than use them to pay for care is fraudulent in some way

[suem]

For all those who think that 75 year old Joyce should pay for care from a system that she and her late husband payed into but never used over a period stetching from the time she was put into sercice at 14 and to the relative luxury of working at the shop on the corner of her street,with virtualy no holidays as we know them today, no travel abroad,no car, changing carpets only when absolutely neccesary,no smoking,drinking,or posh clothes,just so that her kids would always be secure,and not to mention what George did, before and after the war he fought in,trapesing back and forth to a grimey factory within a mile of his home until just before he died.
Bless you all ! I wont pass on your sentiments, she`s sad enough already.
Martin
Suem

[Nosha123]

I understand you point of view - and I understand others too... If she has assets (a house) then yes that would have to be sold and all the money spent on her care before the UK govt would step in.
Good care IS expensive! and finding a good nursing home is hard. She may not need it though.. she may live out her days in her own home... then the Govt will get Inheritance tax!!!!

Its hard to try to avoid it really....

I believe that if she gifts money to her family.. the Inheritance Tax is applicable if she dies within 7 years of gifting it... Not that that is the answer to your question!!!

Does she own her own home? Where else would she live if she sold this to give away her assets?

I dont think you can get round it? Unless she lives with her kids and they are her carers???

[Nosha123]

PS: my Gran was in about 3 different Nursing Homes before we found the nicest one.. she was doped in them to keep her quiet.. she sat in her own urine in a nappy all day.. and they were ignored by the nurses in some places with no stimulation... and YES these were funded by the state once her money ran out....

If she ends up being cared for my the State - she may not get a choice as to where she lives!!! And it could be really horrible!!!

[suem]

There must be a way. Otherwise SHE will see her entire working life, scrimping and saving(foolishly as it turns out) as being for nothing. We don`t need the money but SHE wants her kids and grandkids to get the money SHE and George saved for them.
Is there not a solicitor out there that knows how to do it? Or would that be concidered to be giving advice for free whilst other TAXPAYING people have to pay.
Martin
Suem

[redcrx]

we can all see why she may want to do what shes doing, but pointing out things she may not realise.

My nan could be facing her last years living in a state paid nursing home. Why? because relatives persuaded her to live with them, used all her money to do their house up and now find every excuse to get her taken into hospitals and then refuse to allow her to be returned home until they have finished their holidays (all taken from the proceeds on my nans money)

oh the other side of the coin, my mother in law is happy in her own home, and is comfortably off as money her children received from their fathers death was given to their mum. The children can cope financially so felt it better for her to have the benefit of the money rather than struggle.

[Barmaid]

Unfortunately, Suem, I think your mother in law may be in a difficult position. The Local Authority can (and do) look into people's finances. If they consider that she has purposefully divested herself of assets with avoiding care home costs being a "significant" reason she can be deemed still to possess that capital. If they so deem they can transfer the charge for accommodation to the deemed capital.

The best guidance is here:- http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_4107292

[jake-the-peg]

You tell a good sympathetic story but I can't help thinking that you seem to prefer that your mother in law should be cared for by the state at tax payers expense and in dubious comfort rather than use the assets that she's so carefully built up to enjoy some comfort in her latter years.

And it makes me think it's because you hope to benefit.

I note your expression "Legal or not"

Are you seeking help in fraud?

You're not coming over in a very good light you know

[buildersmate]

Of course there is another way - the way it used to work until about 30 years ago, and the way it continues to work in many parts of the world. Families look after the grandparents in their ripe old age. My aunt looked after my grandfather by selling her house and moving into his. The basis of this 'arrangement' was that she inherited the house when he eventually died. He lived to a great age of 90.

[bednobs]

you say she has never used "the system"
never been to the GP? never had any prescriptions?
never been in hospital?
kids never went to school? never had any injections?
dosen't get a pension?
never had to call the police or ambulance?

There are plenty of things that payng into "the system" pays for
i agree with the others, if the kids want the money, then let them promise her they will look after her at home, that way they will avoid care home fees.

As pointed out, there is no time limit if the primary reason for disposing of assets is to avoid care home fees. Even if she didnt need it for 20 years, if she got rid of the money now the beneficiaries of that money could be asked to pay it back.

Surely if you want to allay her anxiety either promise to look after her for ever or convince her it's much better to be able to pay for the care you want rather than be stuck at the mercy of the LA where she wont have a choice where she goes, what quality of care she gets. Perhaps she will have to share a room, whereas if she used her money, she could get what she wanted.
Also, i dont fancy paying for her care to make her children richer! If she has life savings she can't take them with her, might as well spend them on being comfy!

[baileybird]

Does she have £50, £5000, or £50,000 it is not clear.

If it is £50 or £5000 she will not lose it - if it is £50,000 she will have to used some of it to pay for care.
Why not take this lovely woman in and look after her in her remaining days?

Sadly I agree, your mother in law will have used the system, and these days, rightly or wrongly she will have to pay for care in her old age. It i the law, but not a fair one.

If money is put into trust now knowing that she will need care, the local authority have the right to claim it back so there is no way of getting rid of money. The powersthat be have the right to force people to pay for their care as the authorities will prove that they have deprived themselves of assets to avoid covering care costs under the Deprivision of Assets Act.

[suem]

Thanks for all your comments folks. Unfortunately allthough we have pressed mum to spend, she is can`t break the habits of a lifetime. She is quite happy with everything that is still in good nick, doesn`t drive, and enjoys her own company. I have assured her that untill she needs medical care or levels of care that we can`t provide through our ill health or our own old age, we will look after her. We have offered her part of our home but as yet she is hanging on to her independance.
I will not dignify the comments on us thinking of ourselves other than to say that we are quite well off and being in our late fifties are soon to be in her position, but thanks for your concern.
Joyce and George have lived conservatively and frugaly all their lives and if at any time during their lives they had been told that they should be paying more to pay for their old age care they would have been bound to pay as they went along but not so. As for them having allready used the doctor or police or whatever, that`s just cruel.
It would seem that some have focussed on what they think WE might be gaining rather than Joyces plight but it takes all sorts.
Martin
Suem