Grogan Family - FAO Dot.hawkes and Craft1948

[ironmonger]

Hello to you both hope you are keeping well. Some weeks age you helped me with my search for a Patrick Grogan 1835. I am now trying to find out what became of his father Martin Grogan born 1815 Co Mayo Ireland. He is listed on the 1871 census but not the 1881. Some years ago I remember a family member saying they thought he went to America. I wonder if you could please tell me what my next move is . How do I find records of emigration to AmericaThank you in anticipation

[craft1948]

Hi ironmonger....I can't say I remember this but did Martin have a daughter called Margaret who married a Peter Holland.
There is a Martin Grogan listed in the 1880 United States Federal Census along witrh his wife Mary but the birth dates are quite a bit out. He is shown as the father-in-law of said Peter Holland.

[ironmonger]

Thanks for your reply Craft . Martin did have a daughter but her name was Ann

[craft1948]

ironmonger is this the guy who sometimes called himself Martin and sometimes Patrick?

[craft1948]

This isn't Martin as Patrick again is it?

1881 census at 8 House 26 Court Hospital Street, Birmingham

Patrick Grogan 64
Mary Grogan 65
Patrick W. Grogan 40
James Grogan 22
Annie Grogan 20
John Noone 45
Richard Noone 18
Mary Noone 9

[dothawkes31]

That is the family that craft posted on your first question in July, it certainly seemed to be the correct family in 1881, or is there a reason for you to believe that is not the tight family?

[dothawkes31]

sp* right

[ironmonger]

Sorry I am late but I have been checking the answers. The reason I think these are two differnt families is the difference in ages of those shown.

1871 census 1881 Census

Martin 56 Patrick 64
mary 56 Mary 65
Patrick 36 Patrick 40
Owen 25 X ?
Martin 17 X?
James 13 James 22
Ann 9 Ann 20

These forenames semmed to be very popular with the Grogan s in Ireland and are often repeated in families
causing confusion.. I may be wrong but I just can't see how they have got the ages of those mixed up.
Thanks for your replies and I hope someone can helpme.
Goodnight to you all

[dothawkes31]

In '71 martin was 56 amd so if that is right he should be recorded as 66 in 61 but the one craft found is recorded as 64. Mary should have been 66 but it shows this mary as 65. mary could have been 66 the day after the census return was taken!!! We don;t know who gave the information on the form the enumerayor collected, it might noy have been martin it could have been mary and she could have got his age wrong!!! the ages on all cenesus returns can never be considered accurate as we do not know who filled the form in, the enumerator could have even misheard the age if he had to fill the form in for them, many could not write, the enumerator could have even transferred the info from the form to his enumerators book in error as he maybe misread someone else's numbers!!! This family do seem a very close match, it would also be unusual for a family man in his 60s to emigrate, unless he was going with his adult children. he would have had to support himself for his passage and job when he got to america, and what about mary? She would be elderly to be undertaking a journey like that so late in life, unless they did indeed travel with one of their sons or daughters.

[craft1948]

In 2 of the censuses (1861 and 1871) the one constant is Owen born 1846.
In 1861 father is shown as Patrick born 1821 and in 1871 is shown as Martin born 1815
In 1861 mother is shown as Mary born 1816 and in 1871 is shown as Mary born 1815.
I agree with dot that if they emigrated after 1871 they would be older than the norm.
I have found 2 deaths which may or may not be correct....
Patrick Grogan died aged 63 (1822 would go with 1861 census) Birmingham 1885 Q1 6d 121
Mary Grogan died aged 71 (would give birth as 1817) Birmingham 1888 Q3 6d 50

[dothawkes31]

it would be worth getting those certs craft as the addresses and the informant would confirm who they are.

[ironmonger]

Thank you again Dothawkes31 and Craft1948 It has ben very good of you both to go to so much triouble. I am greatly indebted to you both. You have certainly gien me a lot to think about. I agree with the ibformationyou have given me so far. Till the next time have a good life