toil rule

[cecil39]

while polititians are still getting their noses even further into the trough, and bankers still expect millions in bonuses, can anyone explain why low paid hard working folks can still be made to have time off instead of pay for working overtime, the 'time off in lieu' rule is a disgusting way for employers to get work done for free, okay, if a person is getting a decent wage it might be nice to have extra off time to have the odd game of golf ect, but those on the lowest wages cannot pay the rent and bills with time off, and of course have no spare cash to enjoy this time, is'nt it time this was stopped? these poor folks are working for nothing, talking to one such today, he said he would be better off on the dole, but is to proud to do that.

[madmaggot]

You cannot be forced to work overtime cecil. If you don't like your terms of employment find a job with terms that you do approve of.

[cecil39]

easy to say, but have you tried changing jobs lately? and life can be made very unpleasant for you apparently if you say you won't do the overtime.

[saxy_jag]

I don't get a fantastic wage, around £16k across two jobs for the same local authority. My main contract runs on a TOIL basis, and that's very useful and welcome if and when I fancy a little time off and don't want to use any annual leave allowance. Plus my pay stays the same every month.

My second job is based on what we call 'additional hours' - I'm not contracted and my pay comes out of a pot of money given to us to manage by a third party. I only get paid for the hours I work. The hours tend to be regular although I can sometimes do a few more and be paid for it. Iif I want to take leave, I have to accept a shortage of pay at the end of the following month.

I'm not forced to do overtime on either job. It's always my choice. Of the two, I much prefer TOIL. There's nothing like being paid for a lazy afternoon at home, knowing it won't affect your holiday leave or your pay.

[tigerlily11]

Maplins do make u work over time like it or not. THats why my boy left them. It was work or we'll sack u.
And to his knowledge at least two fellow staff members were sacked because they said no.

[saxy_jag]

That's why I'm in no hurry to come out of the public sector.

[BillyBB]

If you think TOIL is bad try full annualised hours. Rather than a daily or weekly timetable, hours are averaged over the year.


I couldn't run my business without it.

[R1Geezer]

How is time off in lieu giving employers free work?

[buildersmate]

The 'logic' appears to start from an utterly false premise that one should be paid at more than the contracted rate (aka overtime rate) for working more than one's contractual hours. I wish.

[youngmafbog]

So its not working for free then, and what have the Bankers and politicians got to do with it? Apart from my knowledge of the Banking industry you are expected to work over time for free and get nothing in leui

[cecil39]

some employers use toil to get work done when busy, instead of employing part timers to help out, then tell staff to have time off instead of paying them overtime, so whats that if not working for nothing? sorry to argue saxy_jag but you obviously would not be better off on the dole as you are not one of the lowest paid, and time off would be no fun without money in your pocket I can assure you.
and whats it got to do with polititians? is it not them that make the rules, or agree to them? as for bankers, I suppose I picked on them because they have so much more than most, unfair of me I know, its not their fault, I suppose if I got that much pay I would put in a lot of hours too.

[buildersmate]

What the country, and indeed every employer, needs is a flexible workforce.
What that means is a pool of employees willing to cross-train, willing to shift their hours on occasions (and I agree that doesn't mean being messed around all the time) so that peaks and troughs in the business cycle (and, yes, peaks and troughs occur in every business) can be managed without a large core workforce. That way, when a downturn in business cycle occurs, the business is more likely to be able survive without laying people off.
Part-time or casual employees may be part of that pool, but the trouble here is training them for the peaks. Some businesses can do it well - seasonal jobs are a key part of dealing with the retial trade for example, but other businesses with long training cycle find that hard. Under such circumstances asking people to work extra hours during peak times and let them have TOIL at other times is entirely appropriate.
What the heck this has to do with bankers or MPs I really can't fathom out.

[Panic Button]

Saxy, in your second casual job you say that if you want to take leave you acept a shortage of pay the following month. However you are entitled to holiday pay, even for a casual job.

[annie0000]

It should also be noted that most people on average or above salarys are expected to do extra hours without toil or overtime. I personally take a pay cut in order to finish at the office in time to pick my kids up from school, but effectievly still have the same amount of work to do over the week as a full time member of staff, so I need to do hours at home after the kids are in bed to finish my work. However, at the end of day, the time off is worth more to me than the money. I agree that being forced to work on a toil basis when your preference would be to get paid for your extra hours isn't great, especially when you are on a low wage. But at the end of the day there are plenty of people ready to step into your shoes and that is just the way the job market is at the moment so employers hold most of the cards.