Is it offensive to 'black-up'?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....fensive-black-up.html

Well is it really? I maintain it all depends on why one wishes to 'black-up'.

If one is doing it solely to ridicule black persons, then the answer is yes, it is offensive.

If an actor is 'blacking-up' to take the part of a black person, then this is not particularly offensive, but a black actor should be given the part.

If a white impersonator wishes to portray a celebrity who happens to be black, then no this shouldn't be offensive.

I would be interested to know the answer he got regarding whether the Metropolitan Black Police Association breaches discrimination law by restricting its membership to black people?

/// He compared this to the BNP's whites-only policy, which the far-right party has now agreed to change.///

[anotheoldgit]

Interesting, The Guardian's report gives Trevor Phillips answers, make of them what you will.

But then you know me, always ready to offer a true an balanced view on things.

http://www.guardian.c...-correctness-campaign

[Seadragon]

Yes I would imagine the BNP pushing for a review into the membership of the MBP for discrimination reasons. Don't know about this sentence of yours though

- If a white impersonator wishes to portray a celebrity who happens to be black, then no this shouldn't be offensive -

Although I agree with the ridiculing sentence and also that preferably a black person should be given the role of a black character after all there are many black actors around. But the above sentence ummmmm I think if the the white impersonator is portraying a black celebrity there must be some references other than their colour to portray who they are?

[anotheoldgit]

Seadragon

Don't try and look into this more than you need.

An impersonator is a person whose role is to impersonate another in as many ways as possible, whether it is the way they walk, their build, their clothes, their facial expressions, their voice etc, etc.

If the celebrity is also black then what is wrong in imitating his or hers skin colour, to truly get their character over?

[Seadragon]

Because I think like you said there are other features present which could indicate who the celebrity being impersonated is, other than making the obvious statement that they are black? I think its because a particular person is being impersonated as opposed to 'black people' thus the act is representing black society and not the individual which is ok as opposed to an individual - that's what I was thinking.

[Seadragon]

I mean a black impersonator wouldn't 'white-up' say if they were impersonating a white celebrity, would they? Take the obvious Humphrey Bogart or Scar-face wouldn't the black impersonator simply resort to suit, hat, cigar or machine gun and the audience would recognise the celebrity?

[anotheoldgit]

Seadragon

/// I think its because a particular person is being impersonated as opposed to 'black people' thus the act is representing black society and not the individual which is ok as opposed to an individual - that's what I was thinking. ///

I am afraid you have lost me. But I must add that when an impersonator takes someone off, one isn't given the task of guessing who that person is, but enjoying how true to life the impersonator has caricatured his subject.

Playing a trumpet and mopping one's brow with a handkerchief wouldn't quite be good enough to image the great Louis Armstrong, now would it?

Or asking an artist to paint him, but not to use any black oils for his skin tones, would also be odd.

[Seadragon]

Sorry ahms I started writing then left it as someone was at the door, now they gone I pressed submit then saw your answer. I was thinking whether Lenny Henry had done something like that - so I stand corrected. But I think Lenny Henry is old school and I can't think of any black impersonator who would 'whiten up' to impersonate a particular white celebrity?

[anotheoldgit]

Seadragon

Off hand I can't think of any black impersonators or if there are, how many take off Humphrey Bogart or Scar-face.

But if the need arose, I do not think that any white person would be offended by a black person 'whitening up'.

[Sqad]

kunni, you an artist/actor............good on yer mate.

[Seadragon]

Old Git I don't know. One to think about as I suppose the attempt could be construed as bordering on 'ridicule' or even 'rascist' if other attributes could be relied on to define that celebrity? I am only talking within a celebrity context as I agree with the rest of what you say but that sentence I highlighted earlier raises a good point at just where is the borderline? I am thinking if I was a black celebrity who had worked hard to be where I am would I find it offensive if an impersonator used colour over my accomplishments as an actor to portray the person they are acting?

[Androcles]

Well it has happened in commercial theatre - a black cast whiting up to play whites:

See http://www.telegraph....National-Theatre.html

[Seadragon]

But the Director is making a point about colour in that play is he not? He insisted upon an all-black cast. Although I don't know what to make of the actor who said in that article Androcles -'Not only can we not play black characters, now we're not even allowed to play whites.' ? Luckily though there is a moving trend as the theatre spokesperson in the last paragraph says 'Significantly, perhaps, noe of those roles involves the actors actually blacking up.' (Other productions). I have to put dinner on. But would a white impersonator 'blacken up' to impersonate Barrack Obama or would not a suit, Amercian flag and emphasis on accent and voice not be enough?

[Seadragon]

Sorry the word I was looking for is 'achievements' could a white impersonator not use a black person's achievements to state who they are impersonating instead of their obvious colour - which that person has struggled to be accepted in society as an equal (may or may not have?) to have achieved what they have?

[Androcles]

I found the comment in that piece by the actor who said that if this was the case, should we only get a Jew to play Shylock, or a Scot Macbeth, the interesting one. And how far would that go? Should one only get sombody with one hand to play Captain Hook in Peter Pan or an Arab to play Ali Baba and the forty thieves - should we insist the supporting thieves all have a record? And there could be no Daleks.......

Clearly these are all nonsense - acting is about depicting stories, and there should be a decision to employ the best talent for the job in hand and if that means make-up being used to make the part more realistic then so be it. There will be cases when it is necessary to cast people appropriately; if somebody like me were cast as James Bond with my height and body shape, it would not be believable, nor would the OH make a believable Pussy Galore now (40 years ago, maybe!).

It would seem there ought to be a hierarchy with someone with the right talent and the closest to the physical characteristics at the top of the list, but that should not prevent anybody from taking the part if there is nobody more appropriate, so maybe in the Old Peoples Home Dramatic Group, old fatties could play Bond and Pussy Galore, or do a Black and White Minstrel Show without it meaning any slight on the racial groups implied.

There may also be some theatrical mileage in deliberately portraying characters by casting actors who are totally out of physical character, to make a point, or as a joke, by casting, say, someone who is very short as the Giant in Jack and the Beanstalk. I can imagine somebody like Ronnie Corbett having a ball with a role like that, and I doubt any very tall actors would take exception.