Energy for nothing

[jason.p]

Apart from the initial predictable reaction "you can't get anything for nothong" is there any possible credibility in the "Orbo" free energy device being demonstrated. It appears to defy the laws of physics as we know them, but does that automatically consign it to the bunkum bin?
http://www.steorn.com/orbo/

[LazyGun]

I am not a physicist - but, the reason you will get the predictable reaction "you cant get anything for nothing" is because, at least for over-unity and perpetual motion devices, you cannot. They violate the basic laws of thermodynamics.
Furthermore, this particular company, and this particular engine has been trialled and exhibited before - and it failed spectacularly, at least according to all the reports i read.They seem to be selling dreams to optimistic investors.

So yes, at least as far as I am concerned, it is concerned to the bunkum bin until and unless the company produces extraordinary evidence to back up their extraordinary claims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn

[Bert]

Lazygun means 'consigned' when s/he says 'concerned'. Was this a careless click on a suggestion from a spellchecker?

[LazyGun]

no, bert, just lousy spelling and no preview facility anymore :)

[Teddio]

Yes. Look up Lenz's law.

[jason.p]

I'm sure you're right Lazy Gun. I suppose it's like cold fusion, a nice idea. I wonder if any of these inventions would see the light of day anyway if they had even half a chance of working.
As for not being able to preview to pick up typos, the "nothong" in my post was not an invitation to a nudist's beach party!!
By the way, do you by any chance read Iain M Banks?

[LazyGun]

@Jason - Ahh, I see you have recognised the derivation of my screen name.:)

Yes, I am a fan, and have been ever since his first publication, an avid fan of Ian M. Banks, and his regular fiction as well, come to that.

[rov1200]

Free energy is a dirty word in the scientific community. But they fail to admit to Solar power, wind power nuclear and wave power, all free.

Magnetic energy is also free but they regard inventors using it as cranks?

[chakka35]

rov1200, we are not talking about free energy here, and the idea that energy from the sun (the examples you quote) is a dirty word with scientists is ludicrous. It is all around us for all to see and feel. All energy on this planet is free in that sense.
What we are talking about here is that old chestnut of perpetual motion, which is impossible.

Now what is magnetic energy? Please explain.

[beso]

The world's largest magnets are in the Large Hadron Collider an enormous ring of magnets that accelerates protons almost to the speed of light. The total energy stored in these magnets under operating conditions is 10 GJ which is equivalent to the heat from the burning of 300 litres of petrol.

That energy is pumped into them and can only be sustained by cooling their magnetising coils to near absolute zero in liquid helium. Magnetic energy is stored energy not a primary energy resourse.

[rov1200]

Put in its simplest form a magnet is capable of doing work. Put a metallic object in front of the magnet and it will move without any other assistance. I'm sure the basic principle or Orbo is harness this attraction.

[Tim123]

For a magnetic machine to be described as creating energy, the metallic object must be returned to its original position in the magnetic field, and the energy required to do this must be included in the equation.

[jake-the-peg]

There's a reason that free energy cranks are regarded as cranks - they are.

They always seem to involve magnets these days - as Tim so rightly points out in order to benefit from the energy in one you have to do work against it in the first place.

It may help if you try thinking of it as a portable hill you have to push against it to get the energy out.

As to steorn - well lets have a look:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6283374.stm
Goodness me a technical defect stopped it running as a perpetual demonstration - imagine my surprise!

If you run a spinning gyroscope in magnetic beaings it can run for a very very long time because the e nergy in it is conserved. The small amount lost can be topper up by a battery.

As soon as you try to get usable energy out it simply stops because no energy is being created.

Scam or self delusion - I don't know - I do know that a fool and his money are soon parted

[rojash]

rov1200, "Put a metallic object in front of the magnet and it will move without any other assistance". Yes.put a ball at the top of a hill and it will move under the influence of gravity, without any other assistance. But in both cases, you need to input energy to place the object at its starting point, and return it there after its journey. Hence, the energy is not free in the sense implied by the PM nuts.
In both cases the input energy is greater than the output energy.

[rov1200]

Keeping it simple if the magnet is moving then at a critical distance the object would follow the magnet. On the orbo website an exibit showing perpetual motion without any outside assistance is shown. People are encouraged to view the exhibit for themselves which i'm sure many have already. It is up to the sceptics to prove its a con as the demonstration proves there is something in it.

[ChuckFickens]

"Keeping it simple if the magnet is moving then at a critical distance the object would follow the magnet."

Whats making the magnet move though?