Supermarket bump

[Paddy B]

I was recently sitting with my son who is a learner driver. He reversed out of a parking space in a supermarket car park and stalled the car. He restarted the car and drove off. The next day the police called and said witnesses had seen my sons car hit another breaking a light. There is no damage to my sons car and we didnt realise that we had hit anything can I be charged for not reporting an accident and how do we stand in law.

[chakka35]

I cannot imagine how the police got involved in this. I have always understood that the police are interested in collisions only if someone is hurt or vehicles are blocking the highway or something like that.  A very minor collision (if it happened) is surely a civil matter.

[jenky]

There may be some CCTV footage that will help clear up the matter. I wonder if the supermarket in question would release that?

[JudgeJ]

Following an accident where either personal injury occurs or damage is caused to another vehicle, an animal or property, you must stop and exchange details with other interested parties. If you are unable to exchange details at the time you have a duty to report the matter to the police and it is an offence to fail to do so. This makes common sense. If your car is parked and is damaged without your knowledge you need to be able to trace the other driver.

All accidents involving personal injury must be reported to the police regardless of whether details are exchanged or not.

This is all provided for under the Road Traffic Act (1988) Section 170.

So, unfortunately, your son is liable to answer the charge. In mitigation you may be able to demonstrate that you did not believe that any damage had been caused.

[adydb]

JudgeJ not correct.......

 

And animal being?....check the facts as 'an animal' is FAR from correct...

 

Little clue.....Dog, Ass....etc, it IS defined.

 

Plain English is.....No this is NOT an offence so don't worry, He didn't hit it did he--end of story.

 

Someone had a knock in their car and is 'trying it on'...10 years as """"""""""" and I would never have wasted my time even looking into this 'case'!

[Grunty]

The police do not have jurisdiction on a supermarket car park unless the damage was done deliberately.  They would not be involved.

Although not relevant, adydb may be interested in the definition of animal - horse, cattle, ass, mule, sheep, pig, goat and dog.

[GuavaHalf]

Several years ago my car was parked on private land. When I returned to it had been hit in the side damaging the door. (~�200 damage). Someone, obviously not the driver, had put a piece of paper under my wiper with just a reg. no. on it.
I went to the local police station and a PC looked at the car. Noted that it could not have been done without the other driver noticing and took the reg no I had been given.
A few days later I got a leter stating that the driver had been traced and had admitted hitting my car. He was given a caution.
This helped my insurance claim as later the driver told his insurance company that he know nothing about it. I sent a copy of the letter from the police and was paid out straight away!

[whowhere2k]

First post, so here it goes. 

If you are involved in an accident on a public highway or anywhere to which the public has easy access (ie a supermarket carpark) then you have 24 hours to report the accident.  You only have to report it if damage occurred or if an injury occurred or both.

Technically you are also supposed to report it even if you exchange details although this is impractical in most cases, however many people do so to ensure that the other driver is insured or has given the correct details (although you will never find out what they are).

If you don't know an accident has taken place then this is a mitigating circumstance, although this does not remove you liability for damages.  If independant witnesses saw you cause the damage (by having your number plate to hand I'd say this is likely) then you have a responsibility for either providing your insurance details or offering to pay to repair the other car.  I'd assume the costs would be minor if you didn't feel damage to your own car.

 

As for why you didnt notice it, when a car stalls it rarely does so without offering you a little shudder and some noise, often enough to mask a minor bump.

[Grunty]

I have to disagree with the previous answer.  A road accident can only take place on a road.  It is possible for a car park to meet the definition of a road if it is a through route from somewhere to somewhere else, but that is unlikely with a supermarket.

This site gives the actual wording.

http://www.lesberries.co.uk/cycling/misc/rta170.html

Also, when an accident takes place on a road, you do not have 24 hours to report it.  You have to report it as soon as reasonable practicable and in any case within 24 hours.  This means that if you are in a remote area, you might stay until morning before you go into town to report it, but you would have to go that day. 

You only have to report an accident if you do not give your name and address etc. to anyone having reasonable grounds for requiring it, or in the case of injury, produce your certificate of insurance.

Public highway is a completely different thing from a road.  It is the definintion of road that matters here.

[Tim Baxter]

I agree with Grunty, a road being one which is "maintainable at the public expense", not a company's car park.

[nikkik]

A few years ago, I received a letter from a insurance company stating that my car had caused damage to another car in a carpark and I was requested to give my insurance details so that several hundred pounds could be paid up for this alleged damage.

I checked the dates and realised that the date mentioned was a time when we had been out of town with the car anyway.

I contacted the police for advice and I am sure that I was told at the time to write a curt letter back to the insurance company stating something along the lines that I had been out of town and the incident was alleged to have occurred in a private carpark and therefore it had nothing to do with either the police or my insurance company and I didn't want to hear any more about it.

I didn't hear anything further from that insurance company...

[JudgeJ]

Yes adydb, animals are defined, as kindly shown by Grunty with his publication of the wording from the Act. I did not think it was necessary to go into the definition as that was not the issue here.
For the offence of “failing to report” to be successfully prosecuted the prosecutor must show that a collision causing damage occurred and that the party doing the damage failed either to exchange details or to report the occurrence.
The original question makes it by no means clear that a collision did actually occur. If the prosecutor proves that it did it would then be for the court to decide whether Paddy B’s son failed to report the incident knowing it to have taken place. Hence the mention of mitigation.
The argument about the status of the supermarket car park would not last long in court. It has been ruled on many occasions that such places, to which the public has unfettered access during opening hours, most certainly do fall within the meaning of a public road under the various Road Traffic Acts. Insurance Companies accept liability for damage caused by their policyholders as a result of collisions in such places, and I’m sure we all agree that they would be among the last to concede such a principle if it were otherwise! The fact that it is not repairable at public expense is not an issue.
This is not to say, however, that all car parks would be seen in the same light. A “private” car park (such as that belonging to an office block, for example) is different in that motorists generally do not have unfettered access. Here a court may rule that this is a private place.
The above remarks only address the issue of what constitutes the offence (which I think was the gist of the question). It does not say whether an offence has been committed in Paddy B’s case. The police obviously though they had enough evidence to make enquiries, hence the knock on his door.

[jimwhite]

I just got involved in a similar incident - did not know I had hit another car in a car park - any ideas what the likely penalties are for "not reporting" what is surely a minor case?

I read it could be 5-10 pts, up to �5000 fine, or 6m imprisonment!! All sounds a bit extreme!!

[JudgeJ]

Yes, jimwhite, your information is correct. Failing to stop/report is indeed among the very few motoring offences for which you can be imprisoned.  Others that spring to mind are casing death by dangerous driving, dangerous driving, driving with excess alcohol and driving whilst disqualified.

The offence of failing to stop/report , like the majority of motoring offences, can be dealt with only in the magistrates’ court. Unlike many lesser motoring offences, which have lower maximum penalties, it is subject to the overall powers which magistrates have, that is to say a fine of up to �5,000, or six months’ imprisonment. The options of various community penalties are also open to the Justices.

In addition the offence carries a mandatory licence endorsement of between 5 and 10 penalty points. In common with any offence, which carries an endorsement, magistrates can also impose a disqualification for that offence alone. This is regardless of however many penalty points you may already have on your licence. If they do award a disqualification in such circumstances you would receive no penalty points. However, any you already have would remain on your licence (as opposed to being wiped off if you were disqualified for reaching twelve points under the “totting up” procedure).

The offence covers a wide range of circumstances from the simple bump that was mentioned in the initial question to far more serious events such as being involved in a major accident where death or serious injury occurs and the driver flees the scene. Hence the need for a wide range of penalties.

In realistic terms for the type of incident we are discussing here it is likely that you will be awarded a small number of points and a fine equivalent to about a week’s wages. If you plead guilty the fine will be reduced.