Suicide,must you be depressed to do it?

[mystress]

Hi there Guys,

In our Mental Health Therapy Group today,one of the members raised a good point; must you be depressed to have suicidal thoughts,or attempt it.This may seem obvious,but I would appreciate your (non suicidal) thoughts on it!

[B00]

I'm not an expert- but what about those who are a bit ummm shall we say weird? wanna try it out for nosiness sake?

[The Tiggster]

Interesting & I would have said no, but I could be wrong. I am not an expert, but would other mental health conditions make you think suicidal thoughts i.e. being mentally unstable (not a very PC description - sorry!).

Also, what about the religious/belief side of things- i.e. sucide bombers??

[cherrybomb]

One of the key questions that doctors ask when a depressed person first seeks help is Have you ever attempted or thought about commiting suicide?

I have been treated for depression successfully with anti-depressants and no matter how low I felt; I have never once wanted to end my life. I hope I never do feel like that and feel very sorry for those that do.

As for suicide bombers they are commiting suicide because they have been brainwashed into believing that death brings glory in another place. 

[indian]

I don't think you do. I think we all think of suicide some time in our life. Sometimes a situation can seem so bad at that point, that a person might feel there's no other option.

[ludwig]

I think you can also want to do it out of boredom. 'Bored with life, can't be arsed any more'. So there's no great mental anguish or depression, just an unwillingness to continue.

[woofgang]

What about the people with the nasty life limiting diseases?

The way that I interpret it, "the you must be depressed to want to suicide" thing could be seen as controlling on the part of the Health care professional. "You can't really want to do this, not really, it must be depression, we'll treat the depression and then you won't want to commit suicide"

Having said that, it is likely a good idea to behave as though the person is depressed, treat it, then see what they want to do when they are not depressed!

PS ludwig "can't be *****" is a very good description of some peoples experience of depression!!

[jake-the-peg]

I think the Exit voluntary euthanasia organisation would have some pretty strong opinions on the idea that you have to be depressed to want to end your own life!

I think they'd find it pretty insulting.

I couldn't find their website quickly - Bizzarely when I type exit into google the first hit is Disney

[woofgang]

Here's the english one

http://www.ves.org.uk/index.htm

[GucciGal]

My friends dad commited suciude and he wasn't depressed, just got up one morning and did it.

[El D]

It's an interesting question - I'm sure there is an informed medical debate on it somewhere but I've neevr come across it.

 

I would say that you cannot be in a normal mental state to want to kill yourself. I suppose it depends on your definition of depression - is the absence of happiness depression? If someone could see no happiness in the future are they depressed? I think a lot of these people lose their objectivity through their experiences, I cannot believe that viewing someone else in the same position as themselves they would conclude that suicide is the optimum course of action. I do not think that depression as generally understood, is necesary, however I would say that an imbalanced mental state and other mental issues are a prerequisite.

That said, I think the rules change slightly for the terminally ill/constant pain sufferers.

[woofgang]

El D thats a cyclical argument. "People in a normal mental state don't want to commit suicide, therefore if you want to commit suicide your mental state can't be normal"

Unless those medics having the debate have personal experience of suicidal feelings then I don't think that the debate can be all that informed!

Please understand I am not "in favour" of suicide, have never suffered from depression or had suicidal thoughts.

I just get a bit jumpy over the "doctors always know what is best for you and can decide what is best for you scenario"....maybe because i work in the NHS and know too many doctors!!

[El D]

Very true.

The basis of my argument is the supposition that a healthy mind does not want to end its existence - given our delicate mental states I firmly believe that any who do wish to die are basing this decision on short to medium term distortion of their perception of life. So many fight so hard to stay alive and then a few simply save themselves the pain of fighting, but to me that's what life is all about. I maintain not necessarily depressed yet not a fully functioning mind.

[MargeB]

Dysphoria (feeling down) when present in many pre-suicides often lifts when the act has been decided upon and up until the act. This is important for carers, who sometimes think that the subject is out of danger because of apparent cheerfulness, when in fact they are most at risk.

This makes sense. Suicidal thoughts, in common with some types of depression, centre around hopelessness or meaninglessness. Nothing one can do can change things (this is present obviously in those 'cognitive' depressives whose global, general, negative outlook tarnishes analyzes everything and makes it negative). So there is a large overlap between the causes of suicide and the cognitive underpinnings of some types of depression.

[jacey]

My mum 'killed herself' as they now put on the Death Certificate. I would say no, she wasn't depressed. I don't agree with the way so many people. who deal with Mental Health in one way or another, always want to 'pigeon hole' people. Of course there are clinically depressed, and many more disorders. But so many in the 'field' seem to only have text book knowledge. They have not had the experience yet from the University of Life,  I wonder how many of them will hold their current beliefs in say 10-15 yrs from now?. People are individuals with different lives, ways of thinking, experiences. Not text book cases. My mum choice of song for her funeral.... I Did it My Way. Good for you mum x

[MargeB]

So what would the 'University of Life' tell us about the relationship between Depression and Suicide?