Help....I'm Stuck!

[craft1948]

I am stuck trying to find details of my great-great-grandparents.
The only census I can find any mention of them together as a family is in the 1871 census when they are in York.......details as follows.
Daniel Lawler born c1829 Birmingham Shoemaker (my gggrandad who died in 1876)
Ann his wife born in Belfast (I can't tell from the 1871 census if she was 36 or 30 on the original transcript) On their daughter Ann's birth certificate she is shown as Ann Savage formerly known as Ryan.
Also on the census is Mary Lawler born c1861 in Newcastle, James Lawler born c1867 in Newcastle., and Annie Lawler (my great-grandma) born 1869 in York.
I cannot find any trace of them before 1871 including birth or marriage records, but think Ann may have been married before (hence the 2 names) and given the gap in the children's ages Mary, or indeed James, may not have been Daniel's child.
Daniel died in York in 1876 and I cannot find any trace of his widow or children on the 1881 census, my great-grandma only shows in the 1891 census after she had married my great-grandad.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I have looked at this so many times I'm completely lost.

[craft1948]

Good try dot but a John Daniel was born in York in 1872.

[dothawkes31]

Okay, best wait to see what the certificate brings now.

[craft1948]

Dot it looks like you struck gold again........on Annie Lawler's marriage certificate it shows one of the witnesses as Ann Jewett!!
The John Daniel Lawley is Annie's brother and James is confirmed as a brother and born in Newcastle. On each birth certificate it shows Ann Lawler as being formerly Savage.

[craft1948]

I've now found Ann Lawley marrying William Jowett in York in 1878.

[dothawkes31]

I've had to re-cap all of this to remind me what was what and who was who, so it looks like after Daniel died, Anne re-married (3rd hsband?) William Jowett? Is that right? So now you should find her death possibly too.

[cazzz1975]

kings cross, kings county birmingham?? the district would be kings norton, birmingham

[craft1948]

Dot she's still alive in the 1911 census living with Martha and her family. Just when you thought the names couldn't get any worse they transcribed Jowett as Jorvett!!
I have sent off for her marriage certificate for her wedding to William Jowett so this should at least give me her father's name.

[dothawkes31]

it's not clear in the original enumerators book cazzz as it is all abbreviated.

[cazzz1975]

of all the possibilities it would be 99.9% kings norton, I know they are a bu$$er to read though

[dothawkes31]

Ahhhh I understand now, the Ann Jewitt, a witness on Annie 's marriage cert that you already had, is infact Annie's mother using her new married name! I couldn't work that out last night my head was still buzzing from the footie!!

[craft1948]

Dot I've got Ann's marriage certificate through and she wasn't born Ryan, she was born Savage as her father is shown as Robert Savage and was a Shoemaker. As she put Savage formerly known as Ryan on Annie's birth certificate you'd think she'd previously been married to a Ryan but I assume that may have been in Ireland 'cos I've no idea when she came over.
Also on the marriage certificate her age is given as 34 so she would have been born in 1844.......William Jowett is older than first thought as he gives his age as 56 so was born in 1822 (I have found his previous marriage and children)
So the next big question is can you find Ann in the 1891 census?
James and John Daniel Lawler are in digs together, her husband William Jowett (transposed as Jowell) and son Joseph are both in York Workhouse, and I can't find Ann or Martha. There is a Martha Jowett in the 1891 census in York but her age is given as 14 not 12, and her birthplace as Ireland not York!!