ChatterBank3 mins ago
Banned in UK, getting Aus license
A friend was banned in the for 18 months Dec 2009 for DD in the surname "V". She did not tell the court she had been twice banned in Autralia and taken Alcohol rehab for 5 years, without success under surname "R". She afterwards drove in the UK and we took away the car!
She has just renewed her Australian license to use it in the UK in the surname "R". She may also have a UK license in the surname "B". She still drinks 750mm to 1 litre of vodka each day, plus wine and cold beer when she can get it (seems wine and beer don't count as 'drinks').
1) Should she have told her UK insurer about her Australian bans and history? Was she uninsured?
2) Should she have told DVLA about her Australian bans before renewing her UK license 3 years ago?
3) Should she have told Australian license ofice about her UK ban when renwing her Aus license yesterday?
4) can she ligitimately use her Australian license to hire cars in the UK?
5) Does the Ban in the UK over-ride any license she brings into the UK from Aus or elsewhere?
HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THIS SENITIVELY AND ETHICALLY?
We need to be to tell her facts (when she is sober) not opinions - she may not listen, and then we feel we might have to report to the UK authorities if not the Aus ones too?
She has just renewed her Australian license to use it in the UK in the surname "R". She may also have a UK license in the surname "B". She still drinks 750mm to 1 litre of vodka each day, plus wine and cold beer when she can get it (seems wine and beer don't count as 'drinks').
1) Should she have told her UK insurer about her Australian bans and history? Was she uninsured?
2) Should she have told DVLA about her Australian bans before renewing her UK license 3 years ago?
3) Should she have told Australian license ofice about her UK ban when renwing her Aus license yesterday?
4) can she ligitimately use her Australian license to hire cars in the UK?
5) Does the Ban in the UK over-ride any license she brings into the UK from Aus or elsewhere?
HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THIS SENITIVELY AND ETHICALLY?
We need to be to tell her facts (when she is sober) not opinions - she may not listen, and then we feel we might have to report to the UK authorities if not the Aus ones too?
Answers
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2-part post
(Answers numbered in line with your questions):
1. (First part): UK insurers require that all questions should be answered honestly at the time of taking out the policy and that any later changes in the information should be immediately notified to them. A question such as 'Have you been convicted of any motoring offence within the past 5 years?' requires that all such convictions (irrespective of the country where they occurred) must be declared. So your friend should have notified her UK insurers of anything which she was required to mention. (However, if her convictions in Australia were more than 5 years earlier, she could lawfully have answered 'No' to the question I've used in my illustration).
1. (Second part): If your friend lied (or omitted to mention convictions when she was required to do so), she was committing 'fraud by false representation' which is a serious criminal offence, which can lead to imprisonment If she'd had an accident (and the insurer became aware of the fraudulent submissions) the insurer would refuse to pay out on the 'comprehensive' element of any claim but still pay the other party for the 'third party' element of a claim. However the insurer would then sue your friend to get that money back. (If an accident left another driver needing life-long medical support, the insurer might have to pay out several million pounds, which they would then demand from your friend).
2. Renewing a UK licence does not require the licence holder to disclose foreign convictions (but it does require the disclosure of any relevant medical condition, such as chronic alcoholism).
(Answers numbered in line with your questions):
1. (First part): UK insurers require that all questions should be answered honestly at the time of taking out the policy and that any later changes in the information should be immediately notified to them. A question such as 'Have you been convicted of any motoring offence within the past 5 years?' requires that all such convictions (irrespective of the country where they occurred) must be declared. So your friend should have notified her UK insurers of anything which she was required to mention. (However, if her convictions in Australia were more than 5 years earlier, she could lawfully have answered 'No' to the question I've used in my illustration).
1. (Second part): If your friend lied (or omitted to mention convictions when she was required to do so), she was committing 'fraud by false representation' which is a serious criminal offence, which can lead to imprisonment If she'd had an accident (and the insurer became aware of the fraudulent submissions) the insurer would refuse to pay out on the 'comprehensive' element of any claim but still pay the other party for the 'third party' element of a claim. However the insurer would then sue your friend to get that money back. (If an accident left another driver needing life-long medical support, the insurer might have to pay out several million pounds, which they would then demand from your friend).
2. Renewing a UK licence does not require the licence holder to disclose foreign convictions (but it does require the disclosure of any relevant medical condition, such as chronic alcoholism).
3. I know nothing about Australian law but I'd guess that the answer would be in line with the one above.
4 & 5 together: There's a big difference between not holding a valid licence and actually being banned from driving. For example, it's not uncommon to see reports of car thieves - who've never held a driving licence in their life - being banned from driving. Many people ask what the point of such a ban could possibly be. The answer is that driving without a licence is not an imprisonable offence but driving while banned is. (That's irrespective of whether any licence - from any country - is held or not). A ban is a ban. Your friend will probably go to prison if she drives a vehicle in the UK during the period when she's banned, irrespective of any driving licence she might hold from outside of the UK.
How do you deal with it? How about printing out your questions and my answers for her?
Chris
4 & 5 together: There's a big difference between not holding a valid licence and actually being banned from driving. For example, it's not uncommon to see reports of car thieves - who've never held a driving licence in their life - being banned from driving. Many people ask what the point of such a ban could possibly be. The answer is that driving without a licence is not an imprisonable offence but driving while banned is. (That's irrespective of whether any licence - from any country - is held or not). A ban is a ban. Your friend will probably go to prison if she drives a vehicle in the UK during the period when she's banned, irrespective of any driving licence she might hold from outside of the UK.
How do you deal with it? How about printing out your questions and my answers for her?
Chris
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