abh charge first time offence

[jamesosman]

a friend of mine got into a inncodent in a local newsagents were he and his friend walked around a shop a few times and left with out buying nuthing, a manager or member of staff called him back from the entrance of the shop and so he did and asked whats going on? the staff member said 'what did you take' in a threatening mannor so he said 'nuthing and you can also search me'. the member of staff then said 'follow me' they followed him into the back as in normal cercumstances is the place to get searched if suspectd of theift. In the back there are no camera footage and the employee pushes my mate and says 'im sure ive seen use before stealing do you want me to call teh police' my mate said i didnt steal nuthin and dont push me and my mates friend said nothing. at this point the staff member grabs my mate and pushes him so my mate pushes him back and the staff member startd to throw punches. my mate and his friend who are 5ft 10 tried to keep him at bay buy pushing him away and as a rult he ended up with a black guy. my mate and friend left the room after another member of staff came into seperate the commotion. then the member of staff who incured the injury called the police and they waited outside for police to tell them the story to get the employee in trouble for his actions it just so happends due to the mans injurys and he called the police and showing my friend shouting on camera after leaving the room that they both got charged for ABH and the staff member eldegd victem was innocent

now they both go to university and have never been arrested before and have excellent refernces
what do you think the out come will be??

[Buenchico]

The 'starting point' sentence for the least serious offences of 'ABH' is a 'high level' community order. A court would normally be expected to pass a sentence between a 'medium level' community order and 6 months imprisonment. However those sentences refer to a first-time offender convicted after a trial. An early guilty plea can see a substantial resuction in the sentence. (In the case of a custodial sentence, which almost certainly isn't relevant here anyway, that would be by one third).

So a 'community order' (at a 'medium level') would seem to be most likely. So that means some type of unpaid work and/or 'probation'. Based upon your account of events, a custodial sentence would seem to be so unlikely that the possibility of it can effectively be dismissed as zero.

Chris

[jamesosman]

thanks chris, however they want to plead innocent due to the criminal record being a factor.....do you think that would be a good idea because the employee was bigger than them aslo they have done what they were told which was to go into the back, the only down side is that there was two of them in the back and one employee. also the employee stated in his statement which was an obvious lie, was he got punched total of 20 times and kicked several time.... this didnt happend but it was what he told the police....

[Buenchico]

If the Crown Prosecution Service want to try to prove the victim's statements (relating to his injuries) are true, they'll need to produce additional evidence, such as photographs of his injuries. Without such evidence the court will be obliged to solely consider the obvious eye injury (as witnessed by the police).

Even if the 'victim' threw the first punches, your friend was not entitled to hit him unless that was the only way to prevent injury to himself. If he could have simply fled through the door, that was the only legal 'self defence' open to him. If he struck any blow when (because he could have simply run away) he wasn't forced to do so, he is still guilty of an assault (irrespective of who started the fracas).

Chris

[jamesosman]

no he didnt throw any punches at all and the employee was punching irrationally at the both of them, but cant the fact the my mate pushed him be classed as self defence?? also the eledged victem has a photo of his swollen eye as evidence other then that they have two statments off both employees which are exactly the same, i.e. they copied each others story. and the also and strangley enuf the police officer stated evidence on behave of the cctv footage.

the elegded victen states in his statment after the incident in the back room they left an my mate re-enterd and swore, now the police say from cctv after the incedent they left the back room and my mate returnd and punched him twice....which even the eldged victem said did not happend...and thats there only concrete evidence will this stand up in court...my mate said he did go back in swore at him and then pushed a box of crips off the shelf in anger thats about it....

[Buenchico]

Pushing somebody, when circumstances don't compel you to do so (e.g. because you could flee from an assault), is 'Common Assault', not 'ABH'. To see what the difference is, read the relevant sections of this document:
http://www.cps.gov.uk...s_against_the_person/

It's also worth noting that your friend could be correctly convicted of 'ABH', even if he didn't strike the blow which caused the relevant injury, if his friend struck such a blow. See the second paragraph of my second post here for an explanation of the legal concept of 'joint enterprise':
http://www.theanswerb...l/Question737849.html
(If the court believes that your friend and his mate attacked the shop worker in a 'joint enterprise', they can BOTH be found guilty of any offence relating to that attack, even if one of them didn't actually cause any injuries).

Your friend needs to get a good solicitor to review the evidence (including viewing the CCTV video) and to advise him as to the best way forward.

Chris

[jamesosman]

thanks again, but the outcome you believe will be comunity service.....and theres no way to get innocent??

[joko]

what do you mean he ended up with a black guy?

and im sure ive seen use before stealing...do you mean use of drugs?

im confused

[karenmac60]

Joko, I think he means a black eye and 'I've seen you (yous) before'

[jno]

if he's innocent, plead not guilty. Sounds like basically one person's word against another, and he's entitled to tell his side of the story to the court.

[jamesosman]

i mean black eye and yeah ive seen use before which was a means of racial sterotyping.. but yeah they are goin to plead not guilty and hope for the best inshallah