OK, I have to ask...(housetraining trouble!)

[HAnn521]

I have been debating on whether to ask this kind-of question about my pup, but I am going to, because I want to hear your thoughts and get some help...

In short, (and some of you may know) I have a Corgi, she is now 8 months old and female. Mazy is very intelligent (like a Corgi should be of course), listens well, minds most of the time, is very inquisitive and loves to learn. You can tell she generally wants to make her owners happy...

However, the problem is that she is still not completely housetrained! She learned to sit at the door when she needed to go at about 3 months old, and will go weeks without any problem. BUT, lately, she has been having #2 accidents (not pee-pee) in the house..and it seems like she just can't control it at all! I read that at 6 months they should have control over their "potty parts"....I'm worried about her now that she's 8 mths and still going in the house at least once a week!

She immediately feels guilty for it too, and she is punished when she goes in the house and always taken outside at certain intervals of the day to potty....so why is this happening? and at what age do you all think she should be done with accidents?? what about your pups, when were they housetrained??

Thanks!

[woofgang]

Lets clear up the basics.

Does she have the runs?

Is it always in the same place and therefore is she still getting a scent cue to go there?

Is there anything that is a precursor to her going? eg being left alone, a change on routine, someone visiting.

You say that she feels guilty, how do you know?

How do you punish her ?(please please tell me that you don't rub her nose in it)

Does she always go at the same time?

Are you taking her out of the house often enough and at the right times?

Is she wormed regularly?

[HAnn521]

OK... I see what you mean woofgang... here's the skinny....

No, it's just regular poo

its not ever in the same place, unless she does it right at the door!

there is no precursor or reoccuring theme to when/why she goes, and she will do it right in front of us!

she always hangs her head and has the "i did something bad" look on her face, or hides and acts funny

no, I know that rubbing their nose in it doesn't help...(I've read the books). I simply catch her in the act, yell NO! and put her in her crate for some time alone and ignore her

she does go out at certain intervals everyday, so she has a routine bathroom schedule

yes, she sees the vet regularly and on time for all the needed vaccinations

Now you see why it is so odd and hard for me to figure why the heck she's still having accidents?

[woofgang]

Then it sounds like she can't control herself. There are other more experienced dog owners than me that post on here and you may well get help, but my only other suggestion would be a dog psychologist. Mazy is lucky to have you I could imagine other owners not being so tolerant!

[shaneystar]

Old fashioned house training methods tell us to grab the puppy, show him the mess and punish him. This is not necessary and probably harmful. Instead, if you discover an accident, just say "ugh" disgustedly and whisk puppy out to her proper toilet area. Leave hier there while you clean up the mess. Make sure she cannot see you cleaning up. Strangely, many dogs find it rewarding to watch their owner picking up stools or cleaning urine, and often leave another such gift as soon as they can. Because puppies seem to enjoy this game, it is a good idea to let them watch you clean up after they go to the toilet in the correct place.Try feeding her in the area where she has soiled.She won't like this as dogs won't soil where they sleep and eat. So she may get the message that it's better to go outside.Failing this HAan I would have a word with your vet.

[HAnn521]

Thanks to you both....please keep the advice coming...I'm going to combine forces and implement a plan to nip Mazy's behavior in the bud, soon!

[maggie01]

oh how I hate those crates. To me its like being put in  a cell and you can hear the door close. Sorry but unless a pup is chewing up or is in any danger . I just hate them.

[lindapinda]

My sister's dog is 9,and although he had no problems with toilet training,he has always had little #2 accidents at times when he needs more attention,for whatever reason.Pip,like your mazy,is a very intelligent little dog,and it's maybe their wee doggy way of thinking,that make them do this! But I agree it would do no harm to check with your vet if you are worried.

[shaneystar]

Lindapinda has made a good point there HAnn.It could be attention seeking as well.I know you love her dearly but they do try it on sometimes!! My old boy is 11 now and we used to have this whining wingeing behaviour if we were going out for a while and he had to be left.This is a few years ago now mind.I found that by ignoring him point blank for a good hour before we went out it stopped.Plus when we came back he would go bonkers and knock us flying!! So I did the reverse.Ignored him when I came in for about ten minutes and then he would come up to me nicely for a pat and a cuddle.Try that tack perhaps.When she soils ,don't say anything ,just whisk her outside,clear up and then let her back in and ignore her for a while.She may then come to realise that doing is getting no attention whatsoever and things may improve.I do hope so anyway.Keep us posted.Good Luck.I do love waffling about dogs!!

[shaneystar]

Waffling Wilma here again!!
I read an article today in the paper which said you should never put a pup in a crate as punishment .This is the one place they should feel secure not scolded.
Mind you I have never had a crate for any dog we have had.

[HAnn521]

Thank you shaneystar, maggie & linda...

I have read so many books that contradict each other on the subject of crates and punishment...I have read some that agree with them being a place that the pup goes when he/she is to understand that they have done something bad and will be ignored...and also they are highly recommended by most trainers I have spoken with, as weel as my uncles and friends of the family that are vets. (I have quite a few close vets)...

so, I believe I may just consult one of my "personal vets" and ask them what they would suggest...It's so sad and embarassing for her, poor thing...I do hope we can get this sorted out!

[drgnrdr]

Don't let your dog have free reign in your home until they are 100% potty trained, it's a priviledge not a right. Dogs learn better when they are in the act, and they wil repeat a behavior they find something pleasant with. Never scream at the dog, (some will try to hide it after you scream at them) just a neutral tone of UH-UH, and take them out, praise them afterwards and give a treat. Do not free feed, if you don't know when it goes in you don't know when it comes out, learn their routine. Sleep, eat, drink and play are the 4 triggers of potty. Watch for your dogs potty dance to tell the sign that she has to go and is looking for a spot, watch them like a hawk, tie them to you if you get distracted, that way she won't poo on your shoe and when she starts to move away take her out and see if she needs to go. Dogs do not feel guilty, that is human emotion, they do read your body language and can tell when you go from happy to tense to angry for finding mess. Don't put dog in crate when you interrupt the potty, take them out. Crate is a behavior management tool, it keeps your dog safe from your house and your house safe from them. Dogs are denning animals they like small enclosed areas to feel safe. When a dogs potty habits change a trip to the vet is better safe than sorry, if they have trouble, anal gland impacted or such, you'll feel bad if it was not behavioral it was medical. You say she does it sometimes at the door (repeating spot), make sure she gets taken out the same door every single time, to cut down confusion on where she needs to go, some one should watch for her to go to door. Clean up all areas with an enzyme cleaner.  You must be consistent, and watch them...I tell people in my classes that: if a dog potties in your home it's your fault..so if you want to use newspaper, go ahead... and hit yourself on the head and say "bad owner". Hope this gives you some insight and tips...