ChatterBank11 mins ago
Should they monitor the gender and ethnic distribution of people losing their jobs?
16 Answers
http://tinyurl.com/35hvq4o
So if an employer finds he has to make someone redundant, and one is white, one is black, and the other female, is Abbott saying the white male person should be the one to get rid of?
So if an employer finds he has to make someone redundant, and one is white, one is black, and the other female, is Abbott saying the white male person should be the one to get rid of?
Answers
1 to 16 of 16
// If, for example, it turned out that some employees were sacking more white males because employing females (or eastern Europeans) costed them less, then the Monitoring would show this, and provisions for getting newly unemployed people back to work could be tailored toward helping them. //
Except that that's nonsense, because she's not concerned...
Except that that's nonsense, because she's not concerned...
17:56 Tue 14th Sep 2010
Who'd have thought that someone like this reads the Indepedent:
"diane abbott's parents migrated to britain in the mid-1950s, and did so of their own free will; did they not know that britain is a nation native to and full of white people, some of whom may not have necessarily welcomed millions of poor, retatively uneducated third world migrants being dumped onto their working class traditional communities? did they not know that the vast majority of those white people have always been abused and treated like garbage by the ruling elites, and who continue to do so to this very day, only this time under the guise of race, of protecting the "poor oppressed ethnic minorities", AKA, third world immigrants who made themselfs the "ethnic minority" in the first place, as the main excuse? if black or asian people feel mistreated, why don't they simply leave? britain is not their indigenous land, anyway. they have their own native countries in asia and africa, and the west indies, and have no historical/cultural right to demand this and demand that, from the british people, and all at the expense of the native population, just because they are given the label of "ethnic minority" by the elites. this term seems to be used almost as a way to browbeat the british, as if it is somehow the fault of the native british that dark skinned immigrant communities are a minority. enough political correctness, jeez! time to tell it like it is, and not what the left wish it was, even at the risk of being a little intolerant."
Wow...
"diane abbott's parents migrated to britain in the mid-1950s, and did so of their own free will; did they not know that britain is a nation native to and full of white people, some of whom may not have necessarily welcomed millions of poor, retatively uneducated third world migrants being dumped onto their working class traditional communities? did they not know that the vast majority of those white people have always been abused and treated like garbage by the ruling elites, and who continue to do so to this very day, only this time under the guise of race, of protecting the "poor oppressed ethnic minorities", AKA, third world immigrants who made themselfs the "ethnic minority" in the first place, as the main excuse? if black or asian people feel mistreated, why don't they simply leave? britain is not their indigenous land, anyway. they have their own native countries in asia and africa, and the west indies, and have no historical/cultural right to demand this and demand that, from the british people, and all at the expense of the native population, just because they are given the label of "ethnic minority" by the elites. this term seems to be used almost as a way to browbeat the british, as if it is somehow the fault of the native british that dark skinned immigrant communities are a minority. enough political correctness, jeez! time to tell it like it is, and not what the left wish it was, even at the risk of being a little intolerant."
Wow...
Of course based on the comments from the letter above (I assume it is a letter or is it a comment on a web site).
Anyway based on that:
All the "whites" should leave Australia and leave it to the aborigines.
All the "whites" (and blacks and Spanish for that matter) should leave the USA to the American Indians.
All the "whites" should leave Africa.
All those decended from the Spanish should leave South America.
And while we are at it lets send back all the Angles and Saxons and Normans and Vikings and Romans that came here.
Anyway based on that:
All the "whites" should leave Australia and leave it to the aborigines.
All the "whites" (and blacks and Spanish for that matter) should leave the USA to the American Indians.
All the "whites" should leave Africa.
All those decended from the Spanish should leave South America.
And while we are at it lets send back all the Angles and Saxons and Normans and Vikings and Romans that came here.
By Jove! That chap in the Independent doesn't sound British at all. 'Jeez!' indeed. He is an American, if he uses exclamations like that, you mark my words.He should go back to the old colonies where he belongs (or not, as VHG argues)'
The American is male I take it. A lady would never use such language.
The American is male I take it. A lady would never use such language.
In making 15% of a workforce redundant, all the employer has to do is ensure they follow due diligence. If you have five people who are all equally good (or indeed bad) at their jobs, you take into account their performance evaluation results, their sickness records and their willingness or ability to retrain.
They then are insured against accusations of bias, because they can demonstrate their process.
Simples.
They then are insured against accusations of bias, because they can demonstrate their process.
Simples.
As previously said, Abbott hasn't said anything of the sort.
Unfortunately though, because we are dealing with public bodies, I can imagine them slavishly following a pro-rata approach regardless of merit or ability just so they can't be accused of whatever ism happens to be fashionable at the time.
Personally I couldn't give a monkey's concerning the numbers of whites, blacks, women et al of a public body just so long as they are efficient - if that meant, in the event of redundancies, that the most suitable people for the job were all from French Polynesia then great.
On a wider issue, I think it is safe to ignore anything Diane Abbot says - I certainly have after the whole 'defending the indefensible' issue - as she has as much chance of becoming Labour leader as I have of having a threesome with Liz Hurley and Fearne Cotton.
Unfortunately though, because we are dealing with public bodies, I can imagine them slavishly following a pro-rata approach regardless of merit or ability just so they can't be accused of whatever ism happens to be fashionable at the time.
Personally I couldn't give a monkey's concerning the numbers of whites, blacks, women et al of a public body just so long as they are efficient - if that meant, in the event of redundancies, that the most suitable people for the job were all from French Polynesia then great.
On a wider issue, I think it is safe to ignore anything Diane Abbot says - I certainly have after the whole 'defending the indefensible' issue - as she has as much chance of becoming Labour leader as I have of having a threesome with Liz Hurley and Fearne Cotton.
Ms Abbot is not saying who should or shouldn't lose their jobs. To accuse her of targeting white males just shows the writer's insecurity.
There are rules set out for making someone reduntant, which were designed to ensure everyone, including white males are treated equally. Ms abbot is calling for monitoring to make sure the rules are followed and that everyone is treated fairly.
If, for example, it turned out that some employees were sacking more white males because employing females (or eastern Europeans) costed them less, then the Monitoring would show this, and provisions for getting newly unemployed people back to work could be tailored toward helping them.
There are rules set out for making someone reduntant, which were designed to ensure everyone, including white males are treated equally. Ms abbot is calling for monitoring to make sure the rules are followed and that everyone is treated fairly.
If, for example, it turned out that some employees were sacking more white males because employing females (or eastern Europeans) costed them less, then the Monitoring would show this, and provisions for getting newly unemployed people back to work could be tailored toward helping them.
rov1200
That's not what this thread is about. She's talking about monitoring the effects of redundancy. Nothing in the report references her opinions on positive discrimination.
However, perhaps she's just trying to redress the balance:
http://news.bbc.co.uk.../business/3885213.stm
From six years ago - but who's to know whether this still goes on?
That's not what this thread is about. She's talking about monitoring the effects of redundancy. Nothing in the report references her opinions on positive discrimination.
However, perhaps she's just trying to redress the balance:
http://news.bbc.co.uk.../business/3885213.stm
From six years ago - but who's to know whether this still goes on?
/// My concern is that the progress black and ethnic minority workers have made in employment is relatively recent and if there have to be big cuts, it will be 'last in, first out' and these cuts will fall disproportionately not just on women but on black and ethnic minority workers. ///
Ms Abbott seems to think that black and ethnic minorities workers were generally the last to be employed in the public sector, so consequently she is concerned that if it is 'last in first out' is those that will be the first to go.
Is this woman real?
///"I think the public sector cuts have the potential to set back race relations and black and ethnic minority communities by a generation." ///
Yes it would appear that all she is bothered about are her own kind, are not socialists supposed to treat everyone on an equal basis?
Ms Abbott seems to think that black and ethnic minorities workers were generally the last to be employed in the public sector, so consequently she is concerned that if it is 'last in first out' is those that will be the first to go.
Is this woman real?
///"I think the public sector cuts have the potential to set back race relations and black and ethnic minority communities by a generation." ///
Yes it would appear that all she is bothered about are her own kind, are not socialists supposed to treat everyone on an equal basis?
// If, for example, it turned out that some employees were sacking more white males because employing females (or eastern Europeans) costed them less, then the Monitoring would show this, and provisions for getting newly unemployed people back to work could be tailored toward helping them. //
Except that that's nonsense, because she's not concerned about white males.
She specifically states that she's worried about what will happen to black people and females, because a last in first out policy will mean that they will tend to be 'naturally' targeted because of recent employment trends.
She wants the situation monitored QUITE SPECIFICALLY to address that issue - ie disproportionate targeting of ethnic minorities and women. This therefore implies she would like some kind of positive discrimination to follow, should the monitoring confirm her fears to be right.
So please, let's not try to put some silly spin on what she's saying, because it's there in the article.
Except that that's nonsense, because she's not concerned about white males.
She specifically states that she's worried about what will happen to black people and females, because a last in first out policy will mean that they will tend to be 'naturally' targeted because of recent employment trends.
She wants the situation monitored QUITE SPECIFICALLY to address that issue - ie disproportionate targeting of ethnic minorities and women. This therefore implies she would like some kind of positive discrimination to follow, should the monitoring confirm her fears to be right.
So please, let's not try to put some silly spin on what she's saying, because it's there in the article.
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