Probate Query on Bank Accounts

[buffymad]

My mother in law still hasn't applied for probate since her mother died in June. Various excuses given! She had power of attorney for her mother while still alive so obviously had access to her bank accounts.
I've told her she can't physically sell her mothers house until she has grant of probate. I was also told (from work) that when you inform the bank that someone has died, they freeze the account and you need the grant to use funds again.
She tells me she did inform the bank and they said they'd need to close the account "some time". She's been using the funds (apparently) to pay off the care home fees. Is this allowed without a grant? Will the probate registry query any of this when she finally goes to see them?
It's all a bit strange coz building work which had stopped coz they had no money suddenly picked up again ... so just worried in case something naughty has gone on and if she'd get pulled for it!
Oh, vested interest, but her mother left a bequest to the grandkids of some money (not a big amount!) which hasn't been paid out or even mentioned so just wondering when that comes into play!!

[woofgang]

yes once the person dies, the power of attorney becomes invalid..if she is drawing funds from the account the she is doing a fraud IMO. When you tell the bank, they close the account then and there (personal experience).

[buffymad]

Hmm well that's what I thought and that's what I told her. But she came back with the reason why she'd been using the money and what the bank said (as mentioned above). That's what made me think perhaps she hasn't actually informed the bank otherwise they'd have done something about it. Would the probate registry query this? Is there anything I can do?

[boxtops]

Well, IMO she is using money which should properly be part of her mother's estate, and distributed in accordance with the mother's Will, not being used to pay bills. Doesn't sound right to me.

[Barmaid]

If she is appointed as executor, she can use the funds in the estate to pay off the debts of the estate before probate. However, sounds to me as if she has not informed the bank of granny's death because then the accounts will be frozen til probate is granted - unless they were in joint names. (The joint names thing raises another legal issue entirely).

The probate registry will not query this, but the beneficiaries may. Have the grandkids got pecuniary legacies with the residue to your mother? In that case, it may not be too bad.

Do you know what the terms of the will are?

[buffymad]

Grandmother did codicil which stated £500 to grandkids (all adults) with everything else to her daughter (ie my MIL). I typed codicil so I know what's in it!! Think she's forgotten I'm aware of what it says. Have tried to hint before once she gets probate sorted she can sort out debts etc and make the bequests but she's not said anything back.
She and her husband are executors.

[Barmaid]

Quite simple - get a copy of the death certificate and notify the bank (anonymously if necessary) yourself. That should stop the spending.......

[buffymad]

Would it matter that I don't have account details? Where do I get a copy of the death certificate from? Sounds awful but think she needs to be frightened into waking up and seeing what's what. I read that she needs to fill in a form before seeing someone at the probate registry detailing what assets there are (or were!) etc. Don't think she knows about this. Is it in depth?

[Barmaid]

Probate interview is very simple, but she will need probate before she can sell the house.

You don't need account number, just write to branch where account is held with last addresses with a copy of death cert. That can be obtained from local registrar if you know date and place of death.