Crosswords8 mins ago
Is Walkers Sunseed Oil a GM product?
32 Answers
I noticed that Walkers crisps are now cooked in Sunseed Oil which is a trade marked name. Does this mean that the 'special' sunflower oil is from genetically modified plants?
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Frito-Lay have applied for and have been granted a Trademark for the word "SunSeed". The application was based on two distinctive characteristics.
The first was that the word was composed of two joined single words with a mid-word capital and the second was that the font used for the word could not be varied - in effect, this created a logo.
Subject to these two conditions being met, a trademark was granted. The purpose of these conditions was to discriminate the word from the ubiquitous word "Sunseed". This was the gist of the original application. The trademark has been licenced to Walker's for use on crisp packets and to other companies.
You're right in what you say about applications being rejected due to identical phonetics, but in recent years, it seems that the authorities have relaxed many of the rules allowing the inclusion of such words as "SunSeed". It seems that it's not unusual nowadays - I'm currently trialling statistical software where the word "beta" has been trademarked!
I understand your point about the logo, but it now looks like they have created a logo. I've checked and compared the font, design and spacing between letters used on Walker's crisps bags for the word "SunSeed" and they're all identical. They also very closely resemble the word on Walker's websites.
The bottom line is that it's possible nowadays to trademark just about any word without much ingenuity. Sad isn't it?
The first was that the word was composed of two joined single words with a mid-word capital and the second was that the font used for the word could not be varied - in effect, this created a logo.
Subject to these two conditions being met, a trademark was granted. The purpose of these conditions was to discriminate the word from the ubiquitous word "Sunseed". This was the gist of the original application. The trademark has been licenced to Walker's for use on crisp packets and to other companies.
You're right in what you say about applications being rejected due to identical phonetics, but in recent years, it seems that the authorities have relaxed many of the rules allowing the inclusion of such words as "SunSeed". It seems that it's not unusual nowadays - I'm currently trialling statistical software where the word "beta" has been trademarked!
I understand your point about the logo, but it now looks like they have created a logo. I've checked and compared the font, design and spacing between letters used on Walker's crisps bags for the word "SunSeed" and they're all identical. They also very closely resemble the word on Walker's websites.
The bottom line is that it's possible nowadays to trademark just about any word without much ingenuity. Sad isn't it?
With regard to the Patent, I've checked again myself on the main online database and can't find any reference to "SunSeed".
You can check the public database on:
http://gb.espacenet.com
You can find details of all sorts of wierd and wonderful inventions but nothing on "SunSeed"
I used a more detailed search facility accesible only from academic networks and even this has come up negative.
Everything now seems to point to "SunSeed" being Trademarked but not Patented. This has to be significant.
You can check the public database on:
http://gb.espacenet.com
You can find details of all sorts of wierd and wonderful inventions but nothing on "SunSeed"
I used a more detailed search facility accesible only from academic networks and even this has come up negative.
Everything now seems to point to "SunSeed" being Trademarked but not Patented. This has to be significant.
Well done, Prof. Hope students aren't suffering from a lack of attention!
I had a look through the US Patents Office websites and got thoroughly bogged down. But I did come up with a patent for a new sunflower. Details, there were none, so I looked on the Deutche European patents site and found a full description. I wonder if this may be it, but there's nary a mention of the word 'sunseed'.
There's no doubt about the name being applied to a sunflower, as shown here
Another route might be the EU plant registration list - I'll have a go at that tomorrow - wish me luck!!
I had a look through the US Patents Office websites and got thoroughly bogged down. But I did come up with a patent for a new sunflower. Details, there were none, so I looked on the Deutche European patents site and found a full description. I wonder if this may be it, but there's nary a mention of the word 'sunseed'.
There's no doubt about the name being applied to a sunflower, as shown here
Another route might be the EU plant registration list - I'll have a go at that tomorrow - wish me luck!!
I have been trying to get answers from Walkers myself from their customer services department. I asked the question whether their SunSeed TM oil was derived from a GMO.
Their reply was to say thay they do not use GM ingredients. Is this skirting the issue in the context of a previous answer where it was said that most, if not all, the genetic material has been removed from the oil during the refining process, therefore the 'ingredient' is not genetically modified.
I asked the question again simply asking for a yes/no answer to the above question. They reply in a very similar vain - They do not use GM ingredients.
What are your thoughts on this?
Their reply was to say thay they do not use GM ingredients. Is this skirting the issue in the context of a previous answer where it was said that most, if not all, the genetic material has been removed from the oil during the refining process, therefore the 'ingredient' is not genetically modified.
I asked the question again simply asking for a yes/no answer to the above question. They reply in a very similar vain - They do not use GM ingredients.
What are your thoughts on this?
Alas, I haven't found a way into EU trademark or 'permitted crop' listings without having to go through 'pay per query' sites.
But I note from the European Patent page in the previous link that the patent is for a sunflower hybrid based on parent lines of the Pervenets variety. This latter was subject to mutagenesis. See here The questions arising are, (1) Is the patent for the 'Sunseed' sunflower, with its oil being used by Walkers, and, (2) was the Pervenets mutagenesis a GM process?
Richardland, I sympathise with you over your answers from Walkers. It's like politicians who say 'We have no plans to...'. when what they mean is that they are going full steam ahead, but their plans aren't yet finalised.
Weasels.
But I note from the European Patent page in the previous link that the patent is for a sunflower hybrid based on parent lines of the Pervenets variety. This latter was subject to mutagenesis. See here The questions arising are, (1) Is the patent for the 'Sunseed' sunflower, with its oil being used by Walkers, and, (2) was the Pervenets mutagenesis a GM process?
Richardland, I sympathise with you over your answers from Walkers. It's like politicians who say 'We have no plans to...'. when what they mean is that they are going full steam ahead, but their plans aren't yet finalised.
Weasels.
New user to this fantastic site.
I did some work on trademarks recently for a client. My understanding was that anyone can put TM after a name or tagline, it just shows that it is being used in a trademark capacity. When the R is put there instead shows that the name or item is registered. This may be why nothing was showing up on the searches you did to begin with.
I did some work on trademarks recently for a client. My understanding was that anyone can put TM after a name or tagline, it just shows that it is being used in a trademark capacity. When the R is put there instead shows that the name or item is registered. This may be why nothing was showing up on the searches you did to begin with.
Back to square one with Walkers reply. If the genes and DNA are stripped from something, does it become a non-GM ingredient?
Welcome, 2complicated! As you'll have seen, for TM the Patents Office showed it was 'applied for' last October. Objections have only a three month time limit, but I can't find anything more recent that says 'approved'...or not.
(I assume Prof's presently having a well-deserved rest, lying on a beach somewhere).
Welcome, 2complicated! As you'll have seen, for TM the Patents Office showed it was 'applied for' last October. Objections have only a three month time limit, but I can't find anything more recent that says 'approved'...or not.
(I assume Prof's presently having a well-deserved rest, lying on a beach somewhere).
Apologies for the late reply. I've been up to my head in work over the last few weeks. Haven't been on holiday, honest - see Elements salts question by Birt.
Removal of genetic material from a GM crop would technically result in a non-gm product. Whether this would be permissable within the bounds of current food legislation is a different matter. I very much doubt it.
I'll look into it again. I've also come to a dead end for now in researching this variety further - certain information seems to be protected.
Removal of genetic material from a GM crop would technically result in a non-gm product. Whether this would be permissable within the bounds of current food legislation is a different matter. I very much doubt it.
I'll look into it again. I've also come to a dead end for now in researching this variety further - certain information seems to be protected.
Right, it's time to read between the lines.
I've discovered further details of this patent in a secure archived source. The key information I've been searching for has been "removed" from the patent details.
The reason for removal of this information is open to speculation. However, if one considers what should be the primary reason, there is a possibility that you could be correct.
However, I still cannot confirm that the searched sources to date have said that Sunseed oil is GM in origin - it may be of non GM origin. Nevertheless, there is clearly scope here for further investigation.
It's a busy week this week, but I'm still on the case.
I've discovered further details of this patent in a secure archived source. The key information I've been searching for has been "removed" from the patent details.
The reason for removal of this information is open to speculation. However, if one considers what should be the primary reason, there is a possibility that you could be correct.
However, I still cannot confirm that the searched sources to date have said that Sunseed oil is GM in origin - it may be of non GM origin. Nevertheless, there is clearly scope here for further investigation.
It's a busy week this week, but I'm still on the case.
Get more information on food logos logo design along with logo reviews n help on http://www.companylogos.ws/articles.html
First, thanks for all the research already done. I arrived here after eating a bag of Lay's crisps and noticing a reference on it to the "special SunSeed® oil". My mind sprang immediately to GM.
Then, there seems to be some confusion regarding the implications of a trade mark. A trade mark is just a mark, nothing but a name, so, unlike a patent, it does not imply an original product or process. You can register "WonderBlah" as a trade mark for ordinary water, and the registration will give you the exclusive right to sell water under that name, but the water is still just the same ordinary water that you can also get from your tap.
"SUNSEED" (the word itself, irrespective of capitalisation) is indeed registered as European trade mark number 004667821 by Frito-Lay Trading Company GmbH in Bern, in Nice classes 29 and 30 (various foodstuffs). In principle, Frito-Lay has the exclusive right to sell not only sunflower oil, but also a great variety of other foods and beverages under this name.
What is strange here though, is that "sunseed" is a widely used generic name for sunflower oil and generic product names are barred from registration as trade marks. In other words, you can't register "Coffee" as a trade mark for coffee, nor "Salt" as a trade mark for common salt. Or, if you do, you will enjoy no protection for the name against its generic use by anyone for the corresponding product.
So the question is: why on earth would a big company such as Lay's bother to register a trade mark that it cannot legally defend? Anybody's guess is as good as mine. Perhaps they thought that "SunSeed®" looks good from a marketing point of view and is well worth a couple of thousand euro registration costs, never mind that it's totally worthless from the trade mark proper point of view.
Then, there seems to be some confusion regarding the implications of a trade mark. A trade mark is just a mark, nothing but a name, so, unlike a patent, it does not imply an original product or process. You can register "WonderBlah" as a trade mark for ordinary water, and the registration will give you the exclusive right to sell water under that name, but the water is still just the same ordinary water that you can also get from your tap.
"SUNSEED" (the word itself, irrespective of capitalisation) is indeed registered as European trade mark number 004667821 by Frito-Lay Trading Company GmbH in Bern, in Nice classes 29 and 30 (various foodstuffs). In principle, Frito-Lay has the exclusive right to sell not only sunflower oil, but also a great variety of other foods and beverages under this name.
What is strange here though, is that "sunseed" is a widely used generic name for sunflower oil and generic product names are barred from registration as trade marks. In other words, you can't register "Coffee" as a trade mark for coffee, nor "Salt" as a trade mark for common salt. Or, if you do, you will enjoy no protection for the name against its generic use by anyone for the corresponding product.
So the question is: why on earth would a big company such as Lay's bother to register a trade mark that it cannot legally defend? Anybody's guess is as good as mine. Perhaps they thought that "SunSeed®" looks good from a marketing point of view and is well worth a couple of thousand euro registration costs, never mind that it's totally worthless from the trade mark proper point of view.
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