Does Fronier Give You A Refund?
Gaming2 mins ago
Why Millbank?
Sureley that's Labour HQ Isn't it? The Toryberals are in governement so why are the sociology students smashing up the wrong joint?
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steve 5 I've always been puzzled by the term " I'm working class and proud of it " . My mother used to use that term frequently and even as a child I couldn't understand what there was to be proud of .
It's nothing to be ashamed of either but what does it mean .? To be proud of an achievement is understandable but being W/C is a fact of life or birth. We haven't chosen or striven to be W/C so why is the term trotted out so often. For that matter what does W/C mean anyway I heard a Wino use that term the other day and he didn't look as if he had done a days work in his life.
It's nothing to be ashamed of either but what does it mean .? To be proud of an achievement is understandable but being W/C is a fact of life or birth. We haven't chosen or striven to be W/C so why is the term trotted out so often. For that matter what does W/C mean anyway I heard a Wino use that term the other day and he didn't look as if he had done a days work in his life.
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steve 5 Interesting answer although I don't feel any bond with the Wino and I'm not quite sure
what you mean by # it also reflects what you are not. # . I think you are right about shared values, that seems more important than actual wealth . Which may explain why lottery winners have difficulty in adjusting to their new status. Would you say the class you are born into stays with you for the rest of your life whatever else may change ?
what you mean by # it also reflects what you are not. # . I think you are right about shared values, that seems more important than actual wealth . Which may explain why lottery winners have difficulty in adjusting to their new status. Would you say the class you are born into stays with you for the rest of your life whatever else may change ?
I’m sorry, Steve, but I think you misunderstood me (either that or I did not make my point too well, which is probably more likely).
I maintain my remark that the epithet “working class” is misused. If we must classify people then of course we need “working” people. We need plumbers, electricians, hairdressers, labourers and the like to take on the many jobs that make civilised life that much more pleasant. People doing these jobs (which most of them manage to learn to do without the benefit of a university education) work hard and should be proud of themselves – every bit as proud as people involved in the “professions”. Far from being a necessary evil they are a very necessary benefit – far more necessary and beneficial than, say, a stockbroker, a “PR” employee or a hedge fund manager.
However, in recent years the term has been used increasingly to describe the millions of “non-working” people who have taken a deliberate choice not to become involved with work at all. In describing themselves as “working class” they seek to give themselves credibility that they do not deserve and in doing so damage the integrity of those who truly are “working class”.
As far as yesterday’s events are concerned those concerned should spend a bit more time studying the government’s proposals and a bit less kicking in people’s windows. It is obvious that the previous government’s higher education strategy is unaffordable and if those who want a degree want it that much then they will have to pay for it. But only when they are earning considerably more than the average wage. So those who get a degree in “Media and Films” and (unsurprisingly) end up serving hamburgers (a useful job but not one that needs a degree, however valueless) will not have to pay, whatever “class” they originate from.
I maintain my remark that the epithet “working class” is misused. If we must classify people then of course we need “working” people. We need plumbers, electricians, hairdressers, labourers and the like to take on the many jobs that make civilised life that much more pleasant. People doing these jobs (which most of them manage to learn to do without the benefit of a university education) work hard and should be proud of themselves – every bit as proud as people involved in the “professions”. Far from being a necessary evil they are a very necessary benefit – far more necessary and beneficial than, say, a stockbroker, a “PR” employee or a hedge fund manager.
However, in recent years the term has been used increasingly to describe the millions of “non-working” people who have taken a deliberate choice not to become involved with work at all. In describing themselves as “working class” they seek to give themselves credibility that they do not deserve and in doing so damage the integrity of those who truly are “working class”.
As far as yesterday’s events are concerned those concerned should spend a bit more time studying the government’s proposals and a bit less kicking in people’s windows. It is obvious that the previous government’s higher education strategy is unaffordable and if those who want a degree want it that much then they will have to pay for it. But only when they are earning considerably more than the average wage. So those who get a degree in “Media and Films” and (unsurprisingly) end up serving hamburgers (a useful job but not one that needs a degree, however valueless) will not have to pay, whatever “class” they originate from.
perhaps one option is to fully fund degrees in things the country needs...we need doctors, nurses,scientists, probably a limited number of environmentalists, architects town planners etc Dentists and pharmacists....that sort of thing....anything else related to sport/entertainment/dead stuff like history unless it is linked to a teaching qualification no funding at all So if you want to do a degree in media studies then you pay for it either by working and doing it part time/distance learning or by getting a loan... if you want to be a doctor and you have the academic qualifications you should expect your fees to be paid and a reasonable grant to cover living expenses. You are over 18 the state says you are and adult your parents shouldn't have to contribute...
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