Countries or regions?

[Jonathan R]

Following on from the UK/GB question, can we say that England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are countries? I was having this debate with someone in France and they insisted that these were simply regions of the country that is the UK. As a side line, I think that the sooner we split into individual countries with seperate identities within Europe the better. I want to be proud of being English (difficult I know) and forget the days of the 'British' Empire? What does evryone think, esp. the non-English?

[cliffy]

You should suggest to your French friend that he/she pays a visit to Scotland, say Glasgow, go into a bar & tell them Scotland is not a county but simply a region. I think we all know what would happen! Perhaps your right the only way to finally bury the British Empire will be to disband the UK. However the UK is an economic entity a lot of business span into all four countries any split up of the UK should not put up custom & excise barriers that were not there before. I suppose I am talking about England, Scotland, Wales & N Ireland within the EU

[sft42]

I think that Scotland is a country, Wales is a principatity and Northern Ireland is an anacronism. Does this sound right?

[slimjim]

I'm English and until reading recent discussions on here I didn't know that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland were part of our country. They hate us so why don't they just clear off and set up their own countries?!

[Jonathan R]

A few points: As an Englishman, I have never considered myself as living in the same country as the Scots or the Welsh and certainly not the Northern Irish. They have their well-developed identities and I want my country to have its own. It is time we English fought to have the English flag stand for something more than Football Hooliganism. Isn't morris dancing english, now there's something to be proud of! I hope, Slimjim, that they don't hate us. We need to forgive the crimes of our ancestors in order to live in peace with their descendants. And I think they are continuing to set up their own countries (national assemblies, etc.) Sft, what does that make England?? I'm opening us up to attack here, I know!

[woodpam]

With the possible exception of Wales, which needs better marketing, we do all have a clearly defined identity in Europe. All the countries are also represented in the European Parliament. Can you imagine the cost of setting up separate embassies all over the world, not to mention trade delegations and other bureacratic organisations in all four countries which would provide three more gravy trains for unseated old MPs and the like. The taxpayers, who are already stiffed handsomely to pay for all this AND a royal family wouldn't know what had hit them. Be proud of being British - it's more diverse and more inclusive and gives us a better chance of someone to cheer for in the Olympic Games. It's also more straightforward for someone like me with grandparents from more than one country who would have to start wondering which nationality they would belong to.

[Jonathan R]

Woodpam, sorry I can't be proud of being British rather than English, but I do agree about the possible unnecessary costs involved in devolution. I want to be proud of being English and of being European. My grandmother was Scottish and I have Irish and French blood as well, but I feel English as I was born here and will most likely die here. TW, it's great to hear a pro-english voice from Scotland. We too often have crazy negative ideas about countries that we are expected to be against. Just the other day I had to set an old woman straight in the supermarket about the French. She said she would never buy French cheese, as all French people were dirty - it's her loss if she wants to harbour such an opinion, but it is depressing to hear. And I'm sure she didn't shower every day - Yuk! It seems to me that it is often the oppressed minorities that have the strongest sense of who they are as a group. The white, middle class, english, male has not, until now, had to struggle for recognition and has therefore not developed a real sense of identity. I once had to defend a minority in a class at Uni, and tried to argue for this group but no one got it!

[RoverRowe]

I'm English and I live in Wales - I think its great that the UK is made up of such a diversity of countries. We need to celebrate diversity - its a dangerous time to be talking about 'hate' between people from different parts of the UK, as we watch a war unfold in the world. I support more devolved powers to the countries (Wales, Scotland NI) and to the English regions - I think things are working really well in Wales at the moment. Sorry this is a rambling response, but it's late!