Prison - does it work

[Stretts]

As a follow on from another question of 'are prison sentences pathetic' - can anyone name a burglar or shoplifter or rapist other than high profile cases - NO of course you cant - they are anonymous - well that should change, Do you see anyone doing CommunityService - no of course you dont because they can't where striped overalls because that would breach their human rights - well excuse me but having committed a burglary, theft of rape I think they have forfited their rights - bring back the stocks and the gallows - let the public in the region that they have committed their offences decide on their punishment. If Parliament haven't the balls to decide on what punishment fits the crime then let the people choose - we vote on Big Brother etc then why not on this.

[El D]

Honestly some people on here - despite all the education and progress humanity has made in 1000 years you would not look out of place back in the dark ages. I think the key point which has been made is that making yourself feel better that the crime has received a just punishment will not stop it happening; it never has and never will, and until the baying peasants understand this society will never move on.

[garyyokel]

Yippee! A good old-fashioned witch-hunt! Let's see if we can't get a few more of those pesky pediatricians this time!

And let's be more like Saudi Arabia - what an idea! You're right Scotty, only 48 people were put to death in 2003, and most probably all of them were guilty, right? Like the 3 homosexual men. And public floggings for drunkeness and sexual deviance too - that should sort out the youth of today (although, if the truth be told, their parents aren't much better). O.K., so we may have to give up a few freedoms, but what price a law abiding society?

[Stretts]

You are right - I was having a rant - always starts after a bottle of wine but there were several questions in my rant - "name a burglar"? - "do you see anyone doing Community Service?"

As for my syntax - Bernado get a life - I'll use proper english when I need to otherwise I'll continue to use hyphens - the meaning of the text is quite clear.

I'm off to pick the kids up from school and tomorrow I'll be back at work catching criminals and finding lost children and little old ladies!!!

[blondegirly]

could name a burglar but what would it achieve.  It's not like you would know them.  Plus I would be breaching legal privilege.  Already answered about the CPO - sorry Community Punishment

[january_bug]

What's all this anonmity rubbish?  My local paper reports most trials at our local majistrates and that column regularly reports things such as "Joe Bloggs was convicted of shopplifting �4.53 worth of Polos from Woolworths.  He was ordered to return the Polos to Woolworths and pay �50 costs".  And similar tales. 

I know my grammar's dodgy here... but I have a nasty paper cut and it's upsetting my typing!!!

I look forward to a succinct answer soon... I can't read half the posts without my eyes going funny... they are all so LONG.

I think there are few people involved here who will alter their standpoint, but in my opinion....

Prison works for some, but not for others.  Simple as that. 

[blondegirly]

january you're right.  many people who go for the first time vow never ever to return and to sort their lives out sharpsih.  many more are far too addled with drugs for it to make an awful lot of difference.  others are more at home in prison than "on the out" as they are too institutionalised. 

[snoteater]

Always pleased to see Ward-Minter's reasonable and thoughtful contributions to a law and order debate!

[scotty]

Blondegirly, can't quite understand your thread there, are you saying that you can't understand why people who commit the crime are the ones who bleat about being locked up all hours ? Might be me but that is what it seems like you are saying, I hope you are because in my book don't do the crime if you can't do the time .. If what your sister says is true about the howling and screaming at night time , well that reassures me that the place is scary and frightening; which it should be. But if it is that bad , would that not put you off ever going back, it would me. I am not the sharpest tool in the box but I think I could say if something was that bad ,I'd make damned sure I wouldn't be going back.

My idea is to build more prisons , using the inmates who wish to learn a trade , be it plumbing, eletricians chippies etc, they could be paid a fair amount for their days work, which is saved for them till they are released. This way you have rightly  taken away their freedom for whatever crime they have commited but when they leave they have a good few bob to support themselves with and  an honest  trade to follow. I know it is never going to happen but ....

[Stretts]

One of the things about prison is that some people get convicted over and over again - being given chance after chance before ever getting a real custodial sentence! Try visiting anyone who has been burgled and sentimental items stolen - having excrement left in the house. Try listening to a young man being informed that he - through his excess alcohol and drugs - has killed his girlfriend and her friend by his dangerous driving - then when he gets to court says his sentence is to great.

I think we should bring back stocks so everyone knows who the criminals are and they will then be recognised in the street. Criminals have a choice - give up or face the consequences - face your victims.

It's well known and recently proved in the West Midlands area - that if you remove the core of criminals - the crime rate in that area drops markedly.

[Gef]

A system that might work? Theft - cut off a hand; rape - cut off something else; drunk driving - what?

If there was an easy answer we would have found it a long time ago.

[Ward-Minter]

january bug again I agree with you. Am I ok????  Yes you were right to question the anonymity.

COURTS ARE PUBLIC PLACES. Anybody can go and view a case. From Mrs. Miggins non payment of her Council Tax to a Mr. McMahon's triple murder trial. So there.

[Sado]

During the Irish 'troubles' there were no-go areas, where law was enforced by para-military groups. A common punishment was having your knee shot through, but there were instances of people getting caught again, and having the other knee shot. I'm sorry, but if I had one knee shot, I wouldn't be in a rush to have the other done! It shows that criminals are basically daft, and will do whatever they think they can get away with. Very little acts as a deterrent.

[Buddy]

Stretts - you cant help but see the people doing comminuity service.Roll up in mini bus  - have 2 guys standing supervising 16  (usually kids) weeding three public gardens or wire brushing iron railings and they are  having a great laugh.Its nothing but a jolly for them.

There is no solution to crime.There are are people who couldnt give a flyer for their lives or anyone elses - usually through a habit.

As far as name them - I along with anyone who has a local paper knows the local gangsters.Some are pretty bad BTW.

Just an addendum are paedophiles referred to something else abroad as I have seen a different word come up before but wont mention it cos I dont want to offend someone in case they have it wrong.

[blondegirly]

sorry might have been a little cryptic unintentionally.  What I mean to say is that people often think prison is a cushy option I meant to displace that myth and that it is a horroble place.  whether it works or not is what we are discussing ovbiously.  I work in criminal law, I have dealt with burglars, murderers and rapists, and petty theives and drink drivers and everthing else in between.  Just as everyone is different so the causes for committing crime are different and no solution fits all.  I think in terms of cutting off the hands of theives etc the argument aginst that would have to be one of proportionality but I am sure many in this discussion would come back in a flash and say that it hasn't worked so far.