If you need a cage its cruel surely

[Avatar]

Does the panel think...

If, to keep a pet you require a cage to keep it in, it is then cruel really? Even small animals like hamsters, mice, gerbils etc, would range over quite large territories in their natural habitat so restricting it to a square foot of metal bars is pretty horrendous.

Especially so for caged birds. When you think that the UKs smallest bird, the goldcrest, which weighs roughly the same as 5 paper clips, can fly from Norway to Britain in the winter it makes keeping a budgie, canary or cockatoo locked up for 95% of the time so it can hardly flap its wings seem barbaric.

I think in the future, this sort of pet keeping will be looked back on with amazement at the atrocious conditions in which creatures were kept for the sake of human foibles.

What do others think?

[237SJ]

I`m not sure about small rodents but I absolutely hate to see birds in cages.

[ummmm]

I don't like to see birds in cages either.

My Dad had a lovebird...that bird hated me.

[lankeela]

I think there are far worse animal attrocities that need addressing before this.

[ganesh]

Of course there are worse cruelties than this,but it is still a valid point and I have always thought that. I totally agree with you,Avatar,which is why I would never have a caged pet. I love lizards,but would never cage one,and I feel guilty still when I think of the guinea pigs I kept as a child, and my family had a budgie in a very small cage and never flew which is very cruel.Cats and dogs are the only pets to have!

[lankeela]

I think it would be very sad if children didn't have the opportunity to learn how to care for an animal and for many, small pets are their only contact with animals. Its up to the adults to supervise and teach correct and sensitive handling.

[DTCwordfan]

I like putting my bird in a cage.

No feathers though.

She's five foot five, very beautiful and a lot of fun.

[boxtops]

If a bird is born in captivity, does it know any different? (a bit like an indoor cat?)

My parents misguidedly bought me a budgie in a cage when I was eight, they thought it would be good for me to have something to look after - but unfortunately I didn't really understand budgie needs and I didn't feed it enough. I know now that a bird needs to eat a third of its weight every day - the little bird died, Dad realised that I couldn't tell seed from chaff. I still feel bad about it.

[ummmm]

Ian - It used to be recommended. Also a great way for children to learn how to deal with death...

[LoftyLottie]

Boxtops. It wasn't your fault though. It was the fault of your parents. A child of 8 can't be relied on to look after a pet entirely on their own. There would be a lot of dead pets if this happened. If you get a young child a pet, then the pet is your responsibility not the childs.

[boxtops]

Thank you lottie, I do agree - I think they should have had more of an overview - I don't feel guilty, just a bit sad.

[ganesh]

Nice for the kids,lankeela,and very educational,just not so nice for the animals involved.All animals should have a certain amount of freedom,and a bird that cannot fly because it is a caged pet is much more 'sad'.

[woofgang]

I think that the large rodent playground cages look fine. When I had a hamster he spent every evening out of his cage with me and seemed very happy. I am not so sure about the hamster balls and hsmstered powered cars etcet.
Yes birds in cages where they cannot fly are IMO horrendous, like goldfish bowls.

[wildwood]

Unfortunately, here is another case of human emotion overriding animal welfare. There is nothing wrong with keeping an animal in a cage as long as the owner has made themselves familiar with basic husbandry practices related to the species they keep.

Almost all captive birds have been bred in captivity and are quite used to confinement, as long as they can have a daily exercise period. If a canary is not happy it will not sing. If a budgie is not happy it will sit on the floor of the cage instead of chatting away to it's image in the mirror or owner. Cockatoos would rather climb than fly. Let a bird out of it's cage at exercise and it eventually will return to the cage by itself, not the action of an animal subjected to barbaric treatment. The captive bird lives at least three times longer than it's wild counterparts.

Rabbits, G.pigs, hamster are all captive bred and could not even survive in the wild.

What is atrocious is the way people breed animals where the unfortunate soul is relegated to lifelong breathing problems such as cats and dog with brachycephalic snouts and ones that are so far away from their natural shape that they will have continual health problems.

I won't even go into why one should never eat veal or lean bacon.

[woofgang]

wildwood, your basis is that birds are allowed out of cages to free fly....often this is not the case. I agree that breeding animals to have deformities is wrong but to say that there are worse cruelties doesn't cancel out the lesser ones.

[ganesh]

Exactly woofgang,the fact that they are 'used to confinement',doesn't make it right.It is still a prisoner and actually if you let most birds out of their cages (while they can still fly properly) they will escape.The fact that it 'lives longer in captivity' is irrelevant to their quality of life.The fact that they guinea pigs etc bred in captivity 'would not survive in the wild' is of course true but again it doesn't make it right and maybe they should not be bred in captivity.I feel the same way about zoo animals.
I am not being 'emotional' or humanising animals and I'm sure a litle hamster in a cage that is well-looked after, isn't being 'tortured' but It's the fundamental principle of animal freedom which I support,especially birds because they need to fly.

[tinpotLizzie]

I would largely agree with you, but there are some exceptions.
Small animals bred in captivity would probably not survive for long if released. They would not be able to find enough of the right foods, would not be equipped to deal with our weather & would probably be killed by a predator.
With the exception of the very best zoos, I strongly believe that no wild animal should be kept as a pet or curiosity. Though there are many responsible owners of exotic pets, these creatures are wonderfully adapted to their own natural environment so should be allowed to the freedom of nature.

[ganesh]

I agree with that. Most animals bred in captivity wouldn't have a clue how to survive in the wild and although 'the best zoos' as you put it,like Longleat,for instance,are more acceptable,you still see the tigers pacing up and down their boundary fences.I wouldn't say release all caged animals now but as Avatar has said,I think we should stop encouraging caged animals as pets and in the future we may look back on it as mean.The only places I would encourage would be those vast areas where tigers and elephants are kept in reserves for their own safety or when they have been orphaned etc.

[woofgang]

I think the answer with small furries could be not not to keep them but to keep them differently.

[Avatar]

I think myself and Ganesh are in total agreement here.

Also I am not suggesting that currently caged small rodents/birds should be released, they are commited to their fate now and would die if released. But that long term we should think whether its actually 'right' caging animals for our own amusement.

As for Wildwood suggesting I am ascribing human emotions to animals and then, in the next breath, go on about a budgie being "happy" and talking to itself, err I think you're humanising the budgies and canaries yourself a bit there mate.

[wildwood]

You are totally missing the point (on purpose, I think) so I can't be bothered wasting my time helping you to see reason.