When is it right to restrain ?

[modeller]

I've been reading and agreeing entirely with the comments on the
//How can "care" assistance be so cruel? //
However on one occassion .
I was in a council run garden centre who employed about 20 of these people all in their teens and early twenties but when it was time to board the bus and go home, one girl refused to board , started to scream and threw herself violently onto the ground . This went on for 5/10 minutes despite the carers trying to calm her down. Finally one of them threw himself on top of her, held her tightly and lifted her onto the bus. Now I have no doubt had his action been videoed it too could have been condemmed, but I would like to ask Ratter in particular how it could have been handled better, especially as she was injuring herself on the tarmac.

[Whickerman]

you'll always find examples where physical restraint is acceptable to prevent another injuring themselves, but if you'd seen the Panorama prog this week you'd see that's country mile away from the torturous behaviour in that home

[ummmm]

As long as they use the restraining techniques they have been trained to use....

RATTER works with the elderly. I doubt he'd need to use any sort of restraining.

[cazzz1975]

anywhere that deals with people with special needs normally do a handling course, there are safe handling methods used in situations that require them. one such method used in schools is called "team-teach"

I have not seen the documentary, however the proper restraining methods are designed to not cause the person being restrained any harm. all staff have to be trained in these procedures.

[ummmm]

I'm surprised only one of them lifted her on the bus as well.

[TWR]

Modeller, I worked on Forensic then on with people whom have L.D. you where trained to deal with clients that became "upset" you do NOT throw yourself on top of the Service User that is termed as physical abuse, I used to talk to the service user & even if it had taken 1/2 hr they used to calm down, It's called attention seeking, that in Bristol! what can you say, that was abuse, metal abuse, Physical abuse, Bullying, intimidation, degrading, & deprivation of their liberties. the lot including the board should be sacked & prosecuted.

[modeller]

TVR // I used to talk to the service user & even if it had taken 1/2 hr they used to calm down, It's called attention seeking,//
Yes that sounds reasonable but the carers didn't have that luxury option. They had a bus full of LDs who were getting very agitated as they saw this girl threshing about on the floor. Some of them were starting to get off the bus themselves. I don't know but maybe the bus itself had to be used elsewhere. Speaking as an onlooker I could see the carers were facing an escalating problem.

[Whickerman]

@ cazzz - the documentary showed untrained staff doing things liks placing chairs over a patient (who is lying on the floor) and the staff siting on the chair to watch tv; soaking the patients with water outside in freezing weather; use of cold showers and toilets as 'punishments';pre-planned beatings... it was horrific.

[TWR]

With Respect to your answer Modeller, what I would have done in them circumstances that you have said, I would have requested the bus to go & organised a taxi for the service user, within my service this would have been excepted, them basds in Bristol whickerman, it seem to me that they where just contented to sit on their @rses & not go out with the service users, they should at least taken a bus / taxi & organised a trip out instead of stopping in the community house

[modeller]

Some interesting answers but none of them have said how it should have been handled.
A big girl in her twenties , screaming and flailing about on the ground in the middle of a car park with 20 others on the bus yelling and jumping around on and off the bus.
The carers had tried to reason with her without success and on the bus it was turning into a riot . Now you tell me how you can get hold of someone kicking and screaming on the ground without throwing yourself on to them . You couldn't subdue a child let alone a strong adult without physical intervention.
It's no good referring back to the Panorama prog Whicker we have all condemmed that . I am talking about an actual episode which I witnessed and I would like to know how it could/should have been handled differently?
cazz //"team-teach" // What's that ? Does that avoid physical contact ?

[TWR]

To start with Modeller, no-one has the right to jump on top of anyone let alone a client / Service User, I gather the problem started when the Service Users left the Garden Centre? was it explained properly to the S/U that the lesson or whatever would be finished in whatever time? did the staff say right that's it lets go? this in turn can start something that you have described, just because the S/U have a learning Disability it should have been explained to them that the session was about to finish, The service user had an audience ( the other service users on the bus) that bus should have been moved to another area, I have been in this job many years & know the way the S/Us get attention, & the person that was on the floor certainly did! what experience in this field do you have? I am not been clever by that comment but only asking a question that if the experience was there & handled differently this problem could have been diverted.

[modeller]

Twr I have no experience with extreme LDs but I was a teacher for many years during which time I taught many LDs and I know many of the problems .
As far as the specific circumstances in the garden centre was concerned . This was a regular job the LDs were taken there every day for the job They then returned to their home . It was a council run centre which supplied plants for all the councils parks etc. and was an ideal environment for these LDs.
I only know this as a regular customer to the centre. and saw them on a number of occasions.