Right to Life.

[Ward-Minter]

What are AB'es view on the right to life in relation to the toddler Charlotte.

Should Doctors and/or Law Lords have the right to not save peoples lives if they are inflicted with such disease of body or mind as to render their life so full of sufferring. I am aware of today's ruling.

I am also aware of HR and The Hippocratic Oath and don't want a discussion on euthanasia.

If Charlotte was a dog she would be put down, but she is not. She is a human being with possibly insight to her own existence. We do not know.

Should we be cruel to be kind or save human life at all costs?

[Chessman]

Thats a very hard question, and one, i'm sure, that has been discussed in every home in the land, the problem now is, that she is older, and improved, but in the end, my pesonal view is that it should be up to the parents. As I have said in a couple of posts, my daughter is handicapped, (Autistic), so this never came up with us, but because most of the circles we mix in are with parents who have handicapped kids, i've seen near enough the whole spectrum, one the worst, if you can put it like that, was a mother who carried her child everywhere, the little girl six at the tim,was born deaf, dumb and blind, she had water on the brain, and according to he mother, her brain wasn't working at all, and her mother had been told before she was born, what she'd be like.

My point is, from the mothers point of view, 'Hope springs eternal'. and with the advances today in medical science, who knows.

[boobesque]

my child has cerebral palsy and is quadraplegic, but if they had asked if i wanted treatment withdrawn, there is no way i would have said yes.

[Chessman]

There's no power on Earth stronger than mothers love.

[Dakota]

Whoa WM - I was going to post the exact same question!!  Great minds etc etc.  I'm still pondering, I will return :)

[shaneystar]

Where there is life there is hope.

[boobesque]

very true chessman, my son is my life, there is no day in his nearly 7 years that he hasnt made me smile.

He was given a 10% chance of survival at birth, had 5 blood transfusions and nearly died 3 times, but he hung on and brings me great joy everyday!

[Chessman]

boobesque, I think people like you are blessed, you give your children the will to live because they know they're loved, and they return it in their own way. You have a hard road to travel, and I wish you and your son, all the happiness and joy in the world, you deserve it.

[Chessman]

Ward-Minter, we haven't heard your views yet, hard, I know, but no-one will judge, because its a personal view.

[Buddy]

I can only echo the above.Life is not a lottery - as long as you can draw breath you are entitled to live.

God Bless her Mum and Dad who could have done without this.

[Ward-Minter]

well chessman. I have been fortunate enough not to have disabled children. Though reading the posts of sheer love here it is hardly a misfortune to have a disabled child, just a slightly harder life for all concerned.

My view is if major problems are diagnosed in the womb, even past the legal weeks for abortions, I would most probably support (in equal consultation with the mother) a termination.

Alas, if born disabled the look of a childs eyes will no doubt be the same as any other child. They will smile when their tummy is tickled and their face will light up when mummy or daddy walk into the room.

It will be the hardest and most difficult decision in a man's life but if they were actually in "pain" I would opt for a no-resuscitation policy. As much as I would love the child and have a strong faith in medical progress, I could not observe my child in life-long pain.

So my answer would be I would support the Law Lords decision but only if measurable pain is present. I hope that makes sense.

[Buddy]

Like what you said We are not in this position.

I would fight tooth and nail if there was a possibility my child would live albeit not to the standards we have taken for granted.

Who are we to determine the quality of someones life if we have not experienced it.

I have a fab cousin who is deaf.She has a wonderful life because she knows no different.Fundamentally she could percieive us as disabled.She is the most tactile .bright loving person you could wish for - because that is Hazel not because she is deaf.As long as there is life give people a chance 

[Chessman]

Thanks Ward-Minter. you've expressed your views very well, obviously a lot of thought has gone into this very emotive question, as no doubt it was meant to. Well done.

[boobesque]

'the look of a childs eyes will no doubt be the same as any other child, their face will light up when mummy comes into the room'

My mum has always said that i get the best smile from callum, and he does grin like a maniac when i have been out and come back, he may not be able to talk but i know how much he loves me.

[MargeB]

modern technology extremely advanced. you can't use it to defeat the process of death at all costs. we know fine well there are plenty in the medical profession and elsewhere however who would like to get rid of any burdens/less than perfect specimens: you can kill a child after birth if she has a cleft lip, if the abortion goes wonky! And we don't want these types having their way.

It's not a question of this child's life, it's a question of ALL life...life can get full of pain, but then again, life's meaning is not pleasure...it's probably more akin to the 'insight into her own existence' that you talk of. And we remove that from her just to lessen her pain?

Gotta keep a very careful eye on these medical ethics 'experts'.

[woofgang]

There is a problem with leaving things entirely up to parents (or adult children, siblings spouses) in that sometimes, only sometimes, they want life preserved by what amounts to torture, and if successful torture, a life of pain, indignity and suffering. Happily in this case, Charlotte has improved and everyone agrees that she has and also agrees that there are now circumstances where agressive rescitation techniques would be appropriate. I would also say after 30 plus years in the nhs that I have met doctors and nurses to who I would entrust that decision and equally staff to who I would emphatically not.

It is a huge problem with any kind of scientific development that we seem to be able to develop the techniques ahead of any kind of consideration about their implications or how they will be used eg fertility treatment and embryo selection.

Just really glad in this case that there seems to have been (for the moment) a happy outcome

[january_bug]

I agree with the sentiments that where there is continued and measurable pain, coupled with no expected improvement, there is a strong arguement not to recussitate. 

This is one of the first topics I ever debated during my degree, but I found it so hard to answer the question because of the moral implications!  I didn't take the "medical ethics" module so I speak with no authority (so sick of making that caveat now!), but my own gut instinct. 

I fully appreciate that there are many many cases where a disabled/very ill child has survived against the odds and lives a happy, if different from "the norm" life.  However, I wonder how many cases there are that are NOT in the press, or parents being allowed to hold on for so long, and then the child dying much later than it would have done, and enduring unecessary amounts of pain. 

I guess ones opinion may change after becoming a parent, but at the moment, my view remains that there MAY be times when stopping medical care is appropriate, but that each case will be VERY difficult to judge.