News2 mins ago
Where has all the money gone?
16 Answers
If global economics is based on a finite amount of resource and therefore cash, and everyone (USA, Eurozone etc) seems to be currently in mountains of debt, who's got all the money?
Also - if we're now playing an economic game where the rules no longer benefit anyone, bar the filthy rich, why can't we the people and the governments just stop playing?
Also - if we're now playing an economic game where the rules no longer benefit anyone, bar the filthy rich, why can't we the people and the governments just stop playing?
Answers
1 to 16 of 16
China and certain Middle Eastern countries have huge surplusses. The chinese are getting richer on average. In the Middle east it seems to be the rulers who are getting richer.
But basically, that's where the money has gone.
But basically, that's where the money has gone.
16:58 Thu 28th Jul 2011
I think the people have stopped playing dave - they haven't got anything to play with. I always wondered, when I lost some money (only £700 but it was a lot to me) where it was. It was in someone's pocket but not mine. At least I learned a lesson there - avoid banks and their financial advisers. You have answered your own question, in a way, the filthy rich have got even filthier and the poor have got nothing.
Are you both saying the poorer in the major economies are poorer now than they were say 20 years ago, 50 years ago and 100 years ago?
>"I always wondered, when I lost some money (only £700 but it was a lot to me) where it was. It was in someone's pocket but not mine. "
Of course it was. I don't undertstand your point though.
>"I always wondered, when I lost some money (only £700 but it was a lot to me) where it was. It was in someone's pocket but not mine. "
Of course it was. I don't undertstand your point though.
"If global economics is based on a finite amount of resource"
Unfortunately capitalism doesn't work like that. The global capitalist model assumes that each year, every country must increase its output. In other words it works exactly like a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal becuase they can't work!
Unfortunately capitalism doesn't work like that. The global capitalist model assumes that each year, every country must increase its output. In other words it works exactly like a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal becuase they can't work!
Well I'm not well versed in economics but as I understand it if I take raw materials and work on them and create something more valuable as a result of that work the net worth of that goes up - I've created wealth.
It's not a "zero sum game" where wealth is just shifted from one person to another.
But a lot of the loans that manygovernments have are sourced in China - They hold 30% of US debt over $1 trillion.
The problem is that much of the rest is held by people like you and I in terms of things like our pension funds.
Stopping playing basically means defaulting. Argentina did this in 2002
It's painful - the country can't borrow any further money and will rapidly run out of money.
No money to pay people from doctors, nurses to bin men and the Police
Exchange rate collapse
http://en.wikipedia.o...E2%80%932002%29#Event
It's not a "zero sum game" where wealth is just shifted from one person to another.
But a lot of the loans that manygovernments have are sourced in China - They hold 30% of US debt over $1 trillion.
The problem is that much of the rest is held by people like you and I in terms of things like our pension funds.
Stopping playing basically means defaulting. Argentina did this in 2002
It's painful - the country can't borrow any further money and will rapidly run out of money.
No money to pay people from doctors, nurses to bin men and the Police
Exchange rate collapse
http://en.wikipedia.o...E2%80%932002%29#Event
Hi rojash.
You asked which bit was incorrect.
The bit that I don't gree with is..."The global capitalist model assumes that each year, every country must increase its output. In other words it works exactly like a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal becuase they can't work!
I'd be interested to know what alternative system you would prefer.
You asked which bit was incorrect.
The bit that I don't gree with is..."The global capitalist model assumes that each year, every country must increase its output. In other words it works exactly like a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal becuase they can't work!
I'd be interested to know what alternative system you would prefer.
a lot of it has gone by people not paying their mortgages. In the US where the crisis started it was caused mainly by casino bankers bundling high risk mortgages into CLU's and ultimately selling them as A1 securities. Hence there are huge ghost towns of empty property that was lent against but now almost worthless. Unscrupulous brokers sold mortgage deals to those who could ill afford them, mainly by using cut price intro periods, when they ran out the borrower could not afford the mortgage and they defaulted. Early ones where sold off but as whole estates became empty the property became worthless. So a lot is just lending that was never repaid. That spread around the world like a financial phage.
Factor30:
"I'd be interested to know what alternative system you would prefer."
I think we'd all prefer a system that worked as the current one clearly doesn't.
In answer to your statement -
"Are you both saying the poorer in the major economies are poorer now than they were say 20 years ago, 50 years ago and 100 years ago?"
– no the poor in the UK are not worse off than they were 100 years ago - however the have / have not divide is bigger than it has ever been.
Equality of opportunity is surely a desirable thing for everyone and as you said yourself at the moment the divide between rich and poor is only increasing.
If this is nonsence rhetoric that you used to listen to in the 70s, you've clearly been here before and know what the answer is now...
Unfortunately as R1Geezer points out (and is highlighted in the excellent documentary "Inside Job" much of this was preventable. So the question must be - what is being done to prevent it happening again?
"I'd be interested to know what alternative system you would prefer."
I think we'd all prefer a system that worked as the current one clearly doesn't.
In answer to your statement -
"Are you both saying the poorer in the major economies are poorer now than they were say 20 years ago, 50 years ago and 100 years ago?"
– no the poor in the UK are not worse off than they were 100 years ago - however the have / have not divide is bigger than it has ever been.
Equality of opportunity is surely a desirable thing for everyone and as you said yourself at the moment the divide between rich and poor is only increasing.
If this is nonsence rhetoric that you used to listen to in the 70s, you've clearly been here before and know what the answer is now...
Unfortunately as R1Geezer points out (and is highlighted in the excellent documentary "Inside Job" much of this was preventable. So the question must be - what is being done to prevent it happening again?
in the very simplest terms -
The UK is buying oil & gas from other countries, imports most manufactured goods from China and buys a great deal of food.
To pay these countries, we sell our goods and services abroad - banking & insurance and manufactured goods.
We also selling off the family silver - many of our businesses have been bought by foreign companies, (so when there's a global problem, guess where the job cuts and closures happen!)
We do not sell enough to pay for what we buy, so we have to borrow from the countries who sell us goods.
We are now in the position where Tony and Gordon have maxed out our credit card, and we are having to cut back.
What do we do about it? Stop importing and start selling our goods & services abroad.
The UK is buying oil & gas from other countries, imports most manufactured goods from China and buys a great deal of food.
To pay these countries, we sell our goods and services abroad - banking & insurance and manufactured goods.
We also selling off the family silver - many of our businesses have been bought by foreign companies, (so when there's a global problem, guess where the job cuts and closures happen!)
We do not sell enough to pay for what we buy, so we have to borrow from the countries who sell us goods.
We are now in the position where Tony and Gordon have maxed out our credit card, and we are having to cut back.
What do we do about it? Stop importing and start selling our goods & services abroad.
>dangerousDAVE-
I asked: "I'd be interested to know what alternative system you would prefer."
You answered: "I think we'd all prefer a system that worked as the current one clearly doesn't."
It's not clear to me how that answers the question. I can't diagree that we would all like a system that works better, but I have not seen alternave proposals that I think would help.
If it is accepted that the poor are better off I'm not sure it's right to say the system is failing just because the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger. Is that not just envy? We could increase tax rates from 50% to 90% for top earners but what would that achieve? It would raise peanuts and may even reduce revenue as high earners (eg top footballers, entrepreneurs etc) find ways round it, say "why bother" or go abroad.
We are just going through a difficult part of the economic cycle across the world. It doesn't seem to me that things are any worse than in previous recessions. I am confident that the underlying trend is for growth to continue.
I asked: "I'd be interested to know what alternative system you would prefer."
You answered: "I think we'd all prefer a system that worked as the current one clearly doesn't."
It's not clear to me how that answers the question. I can't diagree that we would all like a system that works better, but I have not seen alternave proposals that I think would help.
If it is accepted that the poor are better off I'm not sure it's right to say the system is failing just because the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger. Is that not just envy? We could increase tax rates from 50% to 90% for top earners but what would that achieve? It would raise peanuts and may even reduce revenue as high earners (eg top footballers, entrepreneurs etc) find ways round it, say "why bother" or go abroad.
We are just going through a difficult part of the economic cycle across the world. It doesn't seem to me that things are any worse than in previous recessions. I am confident that the underlying trend is for growth to continue.
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