The truth about the Bible

[joules99]

exactly who wrote the bible, and how did it ever become so popular and when was it written?

[mibn2cweus]

Evidence here:http://web.mit.edu/margret/www/myndir/comics/bush_chimp. jpg

[astaff]

I'll occasionally jump in to a thread, but I usually just read. I am wondering why the assumption seems so strong that faith and study are viewed as mutually exclusive. I do live by faith, but that faith has been questioned and tested again and again and again over the years. I have read opposing viewpoints with great interest, and they are well thought and convincing. I must say that the arguments from the atheists, agnostics, and philosophers on this thread are admirably strong. Impressive even. To say, however, that the religious in the world are deluded, weak-minded (a phrase not yet used in here), or living in a fairy tale world devoid of reality, is presumptuous. I infer from such statements that my hard-earned faith in the Bible, the God who inspired men to write it, and Jesus Christ, the Son of the Most High God, are all from a state of ignorance, presupposition, brainwashing, and blind faith.

In the same way that many here have studied philosophy as an answer to the weakness of religion, others of us have studied to be assured of our faith, and still others have been won to the Faith by their studies. In the end, however, unless the Holy Spirit of God draws anyone, that person will not recognize the truth of the Word, God, Christ, and his own separation and blindness and will, therefore never understand the ways of the Followers of Christ. In truth, following Christ makes no sense apart from faith that He is Who He says He is and is our only way to peace with God. If I offend you with this declaration, that is not my intent. My deepest apologies if I stirred up anger or cynicism in you, but my weak declaration stands. And yes, I still swim in a pool of my own ignorance and I understand so little.

[mibn2cweus]

Some may disagree, but I stand by my belief that none of us are perfect, (whatever that means). If you look through many of my posts it becomes quite evident that I am not always correct, not even on a factual basis, but I strive to be and I encourage fault finders to inform me and everyone else of my errors. I am human; I say this not to excuse my errors but to explain them. I am still responsible for them and will always do my best to correct them.
I don't accept appeals to another�s guilt or fear as a means to gain another�s understanding but if this is the result I think you are wise to resolve this issue with yourself as I have had to for myself. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't seek help where you can find it but understanding, not appeasement, should always be your ultimate goal.

I have a purpose in many of my posts and I do not wish to hide this.

We have suffered far too much and for way to long from certain beliefs whether our own or held by others, and I believe this holds true for many living today as well as much of humanity throughout history. It is not so much the beliefs as the consequences of them in the actions carried out on their behalf. I won�t cite the numerous examples of this throughout history or that can be seen in the daily news but if you so desire feel free. Many can be summed up in the belief that because of our affiliation with a certain group we have the �divine right� both as individuals and as a group to murder and destroy anyone and anything that does not conform to our beliefs. Let�s call this the God on our side prerogative.

[mibn2cweus]

There are also more subtle, and therefore more pernicious, problems associated with religious �faith� beliefs. The practice of relying on faith undermines our very means of survival, the process of rational thought. When we accept the existence of things which do not exist as reality we open our minds to a bottomless can of worms which devour all rational function of our mind.
The devastation wrought on humanity by these things is not entirely the fault of organized religion. Many unfounded secular ideas have similar affects. I am urging that we as a society and a mindful and caring species give much more consideration and use much more caution and selectivity in what we choose to believe in. If I seem an alarmist please open your eyes occasionally to what�s going on all around you.
You may also have noticed I like to have fun once in a while. Please don�t forget to do this, those of you who need reminding.

[astaff]

mibn, I appreciate your last two posts and I agree to an extent. First, I am well below imperfect. As a matter of fact, I feel it necessary to consider myself, as the apostle Paul does in an autobiographical context, "the worst of sinners." My faith in God does not make me better than anyone else and I despise the thought of any follower of Christ demonstrating such claims. It is only through the sacrifice of Christ that I can have any confidence at all. Humility and admission of guilt is the first step to receiving God's grace. It is all through God's goodness that any Believer can claim even a hint of goodness. My apologies to anyone who has ever been led to believe they are less valuable, important or loved as a result of the words or actions of a "follower" of Christ Jesus. My deepest apologies.

I, too agree that our belief in a religion or "god" must be carefully considered and studied, just as any worldview or philosophy must be. It is because of what God has shown me in my long journey with Him that I do have such confidence in my beliefs. It is definitely a rational, logical system for me because I have tested it so many times. My life thus far has only solidified more the longer I am in it.

Has religion caused wars? Absolutely. As a believer, I testify without equivocation that the crusades, the Salem witch trials, and the historically recent abortion clinic bombings are an abomination and are inexcusable. Christ has called us to love one another. The good news (gospel) is that Christ has died to redeem us to God. But "what fellowship can light have with darkness?" We are different people and there will never be true peace between believers and unbelievers. We are in two different armies on opposing sides.

[mibn2cweus]

I do not agree that religion causes war. What causes war is conflicting ideas about how we are to live together in harmony with one another on this Earth. I insist that this can only be achieved when people come together for one purpose and one purpose only; to participate in mutually beneficial relationships. Unfortunately until individuals hold themselves in high esteem and refuse to accept the unearned and undeserved from the unwilling this will not happen. When we lose respect for our own minds and seek guidance from a �Higher power� we become vulnerable to any charlatan who claims to hold the key.
As a child I was continuously reminded that I was an �evil sinner and was incapable of doing anything good or right no matter how hard I struggled and therefore deserved to go to hell�. This is CRAP of the most hideous possible nature to sling upon anyone let alone an innocent child who has not yet even begun to learn how to live as a human being. This is the kind of �teaching� that breeds hatred and murder and disrespect for human life and dignity. If the God religion proposes to exist can allow this than I say to HELL with your �God�, I would sooner bow down and worship dog feces.
I�m sorry if this happened to you as well but sooner or later we need to quite wallowing in the muck of undeserved guilt and shame and take back the life that only reason and the pursuit of self-earned joy can achieve.

[astaff]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I really am. It is obvious that you were hurt very deeply, and undeservedly so.

[mibn2cweus]

We need to ask a question here. Which is the victim and who is the survivor?

Those who cave to the rationalization that we are born in sin, not because of anything we thought, felt or did but because of a trap laid, to enslave us by the very nature of our being, which we did not choose, before we were even born?

Those who after being programmed to believe this through intimidation and fear reject this in favor of what is possible in a world where people when confronted with a choice choose to accept their nature and live as rational beings?

Those who prefer to wait until after death to feel a �happiness and joy�, which has no meaning, apart from the sacrifice of the innocent for the sake of the guilty?

Those who recognize that the value of something can not be separated from the need to appreciate what it is and so desire to do what is necessary to deserve it?

Christians refer to atheist as �non-believers� as thought this must be a choice when the opposite is true. To believe something is to make a choice. If you chose to believe in �God�, you have made a choice and are therefore a victim of your own making.

What I choose to believe is that to live as a human being is good and therefore I reject the existence of �God� on both a rational and a moral basis.

I, like my parents and millions of others, am a victim of a belief in �God� however, I, through reason, am a survivor as well.