Killers are born not made

[rov1100]

On Panorama this week research has shown that killers have an extra gene that combined with other factors make them more likely to commit murder. The gene by itself it not wholly conclusive but needs bad a environmental situation to trigger the gene.

As this gene is present from birth a simple test could establish whether a baby could eventually turn out to be a killer.

With this in mind should a test be made on all infants to check for this gene and follow up procedures made?

[rojash]

"I wonder if there is a gene that makes you more gullible? "
Yes, it's the same one that gives you blonde hair (allegedly).

[China Doll]

I watched this last night. I thought it was very interesting but it didn't seem to me that it didn't tell us anything new. I thought I'd read/watched/heard of somewhere before about the agressive gene and the brain scans and it didn't seem like rocket science to me to assume that probably lots of people had this but didn't go out murdering people so nurture had a part to play in it as well.

I also thought the bit about psychopaths working in your office etc was a bit pointless as I just thought 'so what'... It's interesting to learn that their productivity was low and a lot was accomplished on charisma but I couldn't help thinking that wasn't exactly their problem really.

I don't know, I came away thinking it was all very ineresting but I couldn't really see the relevance and I was left shugging my shoulders a bit after I thought about it. Did anyone else feel a bit like that?

[modeller]

I also thought their conclusion that 70/80% of toddlers were inherently on the side of the the good guy and the other 30/20% were on the side of the baddie. There were other factors e.g most children are right handed and the good guy was nearest to their right hand. The chidren who chose the baddie could have been left handed . They probably weren't but it could be a factor .

[China Doll]

Or humour... sometimes children like to side with the naughty but harmless fella... Bugs bunny was pretty naughty and I always rooted for him.

[rov1100]

Well put Lazygun. At least you show some knowledge on the subject which can't be said of the many of the posts. As you rightly say many of the traits are displayed by high flying senior executives and its only because they can channel their energies into business that kieep them on the straight and narrow.

At the start of the Horizon program one scientist proceded along the chemical pathway and he said that if the problem was caused by a chemical maybe a cure could be found to reverse the process.

It is only more recently that work has been made on the genetic structure and they have located a gene which as you say needs to be switched on usually done in the environmengt witrh a bad childhood.

[sandyRoe]

It's nurture(or lack of it) not nature that makes killers of people.

[rov1100]

You are only half right. What the research showed was that killers possessed the Maoa (Warrior Gene). This a fact not conjecture. This gene causes extreme violence in the individual. If that same person has a bad upbringing this coupled with this Warrior gene makes it extremely likely he will resort to murder.

[Kromovaracun]

I haven't watched the specific programme you're talking about, but I am reasonably familiar with the genetic hypothesis. For clarity, I think you've summed it up well above (though saying it's an indisputable fact is a little early just yet - there's just compelling evidence for it), except that it doesn't account for everybody who kills, it just accounts for particular motives for killing.

In fact the context I've heard of the research wasn't on research into all killers per se - it was on psychopathy. And psychopaths, while they can be extremely dangerous and difficult to track down when they do kill (and not all do), they don't account for a particularly large portion of the murder rate.

[modeller]

sandy// It's nurture(or lack of it) not nature that makes killers of people. //

I have to disagree with such a bald statement . It's not as simple as that. I knew wonderful caring parents who begat vicious little thugs. I also met parents who had several children some of whom were nice kids whilst others were terrors .
I even saw this with twins one good one bad. Same home environment as far as we could tell.
I agree with you that the home environment is the most major influence but it is not the whole story. Also some of the worst youngsters I encountered came from religious families . At the time I believed it was the naivety of those parents and the lack of sensible discipline in the home that allowed those kids to get away with murder. Which reminds me of a suicide and murder in my street both of which were in religious ,caring families.

[rov1100]

There will always be exceptions to the rules. Motives also come into it especially where a partner is unfaithful.

But what this research shows is that having this gene and switched on is not a transient effect. As it deals with psychopaths the proportion of the population can be put into a bracket that excludes these one off killiers.

What I fail to believe is that the environment can cause a gene to switch on. Genes are switched on for other reasons linked to the species. For instance we have genes in our human makeup that will never be switched on because they are essential for another species to function and seperates us from other living things.

[Kromovaracun]

"What I fail to believe is that the environment can cause a gene to switch on."

Yes, I'd agree. In my amateurish opinion, I think the balance of evidence suggests strongly that psychopaths are born and not made. What's important to note is that this does not necessarily mean that murderousness is genetic - which is what your question title implies. You do not have to be a psychopath to commit murder, or even to believe that it's right.