Council removed personal property as part of home improvement scheme, legal or not

[mm1971]

We're in the middle of a full rewire/replumb as part of the home improvement scheme used to improve the local council houses.

Part of the process was verbally agreeing with the surveyor what work would be done; we agreed to having the entire heating system replaced, including the backboiler in the fire place, in the understanding that the non-standard (and disconnected, as it was purely used ornamentally) gas fire would be replaced.

During the works, we left the house for a couple of hours. When we returned, not only had the back boiler been removed, the fire had been too, and was in the garden, in pieces.

I've spoken to our only contact, the Resident Liaison officer, who has presented us with two options - remove the entire fireplace (which means the lounge carpet will no longer fit) or brick the hole up, (which rather spoils the look of a post war fire place). Obviously we'd like the thing as it was, as agreed - but my somewhat long-winded question is this :

As this item had been privately purchased, and wasn't council property, and was ignored as part of the gas safety check, surely this is theft?

What is my legal standing on this? My view is this would be the same as if they'd taken, for example, our oven, which I purchased and fitted.

[starone]

If you make improvements in a council house it immediately becomes a part of the house and belongs to the council unless you are prepared to put whatever it is back exactly as it was before you did the improvement. Which is probably not possible. I think you will find this to be the case, although I would certainly press the point with the council, just in case you manage to get something done. You never know - someone might not know the procedure.

[EDDIE51]

It is NOT theft. Theft is defined as the intention to take an artical with the intention of permanently depriving the owner of it. It is a simple mistake due to there being no written instructions. I am fairly sure you would need to take the fireplace out to remove the back boiler anyway.

[B00]

Your fire was being replaced anyway wasn't it?

[mm1971]

To clarify - the boiler was due to be removed (a new one is now sited upstairs), the fire itself was an entirely separate unit, not connected to the back boiler, not dependent on it. We've just been left with a gaping void where once we had a cast iron fire. Whenever we've had the back boiler serviced in the past, they've simply put the fire to one side and put it back afterwards.

There was never intention to replace it - the council doesn't fit fireplaces these days, everyone has radiators only.

[NOX]

Fairly simple- the fire is not part of the property and belongs to you- take photos of it, write a recorded letter to the council outlining the value of the goods their workers damaged and give them 14 days to arrange satisfaction for you financially otherwise you will take them to court. It's very cheap to sue someone, you can do it yourself and don't need a solicitor, and my bet is the council will cough up rather than have all the hassle.

[weecalf]

Can you not talk to the contractor he will have had a reason for removing it .the council will pro have given him an ouline t of what they want done and may not have allowed for the situation in your home wtih the privately bought item as others houses would not have had this in their .

[B00]

"the understanding that the non-standard (and disconnected, as it was purely used ornamentally) gas fire would be replaced. "

That's what you said though.

[jackthehat]

Replaced...........or re-placed?

Important difference.

[B00]

Ahhhh!!!

[whiskeryron]

check e-bay. http://www.ebay.co.uk....l2736&_nkw=gas+fires

[tonywiltshire]

The position probably is that if the disconnected gas fire was to be taken by you when you left at the end of your tenancy it is yours if not it would belong to the council who would have a duty to have an annual check carried out for gas safety if it were connected to the gas supply, not if it was just an ornament.

I think to prove theft of the ornamental gas fire would be very difficult it is more likely a misunderstanding. Speak to the surveyor and remind him of your verbal agreement to replace the gas fire, is it not possible for the original gas fire to be placed back in position just to occupy the space? Give them this choice repair (appearance only) the ornamental fire you have removed or obtain a same size replacement.

[bednobs]

it's not theft if you still have it!

[Nini74]

why not just replace it with the money your saving by having the council carrying out a total re-wiring and re-plumbing of your house for you - don't look a gift horse in the mouth....

[Mosaic]

It's still annoying, though - you obviously liked it as it was. Why not approach the appropriate section of the council as an upset resident whose fondly-remembered fireplace has been wrecked. It's also worth pointing out to them that you had your living room nice, and now after they've finished you've lost your focal point and the bleddy carpet don't fit. All it took was some communication on a human level and at least you'd have been prepared for it. Take some photos and keep them safe, show copies to the council.

If they don't make amends somehow, it's a great local newspaper story - but take lots of photos.

[mm1971]

To clarify further; when I said they'd agreed to replace it, I meant put it back, not change it for something else. It's irrelevant whether the rewire would save us money, as it's not something we would have done, and if it hadn't been, we now wouldn't be down one gas fire. Perhaps you can mull that over whilst reading the Daily Mail. Thank you all for your answers though.

[hc4361]

What did you do with the original fire you replaced?

[cathfromsaron]

its obviously a simple mistake!
ask them IN WRITING what they are going to do to put it right! x

[Mosaic]

I don't read the Daily Mail MM - but thanks for letting me take time to answer your question so you could be rude to me.

[cathfromsaron]

i do read the daily mail, but sorry if i bothered you ...