Listener 4176 : Small But Perfectly Formed by Quinapalus

[starwalker]

My heart sank when I saw the length of the preamble, but simply followed the straightforward instructions and the grid came together nicely. Quotation and play identified, now it's just a case of filling the odd gaps. I thought that 8, 13 was wonderful. Thanks Quinapalus.

[Philoctetes]

Incidentally, is it not true to say that there is not a definite letter that has to be put in sq1,1 of layer 1?

[perseverer]

Philoctetes - I don't think you are correct - the reason lies in the preamble.

[tenflags]

Interesting...I think there is an argument for filling in the odd gaps and an argument against and yes I have fully considered the preamble in depth. Whilst I might be chasing shadows and possibly be incorrect in my interpretation of definitions I am sufficiently convinced that there is an ambiguity, or at least an interesting consideration, to have written to JG explaining my rationale with explanations and my points of view.

Not possible to explain fully here without giving too much away.

[vetuste_ennemi]

They're at it again, perseverer. My "solution" has no gaps (optional or other) and depends completely on 1,1,1 having a particular letter.

[word_cross]

I'm interested in your interpretation, tenflags. Maybe once the solution is published you could elaborate without fear of giving anything away?

[tenflags]

Hello word_cross, happy to do so what's your e-mail address ?

Hello vetuste_ennemi - not quite sure what you mean by "they're at it again" - I was just trying to be helpful chipping in my two penn'orth whilst trying to respect the plea not to be too explicit on this thread. Sounds like your quite clear in your views and that's fair enough.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Last week the comments about spreadsheets made me think I'd missed a point, tenflags. Perseverer reassured me. If you and Philoctetes are right I've missed something this week, because I thought it all panned out quite sraightforwardly.
Glad to listen to your or anyone else's tuppence worth

[Philoctetes]

Have I placed the feline among the columbines? I mean it is quite possible to complete a stage of the final solution, in total conformity with the preamble, without putting a specific letter in 1,1,1. I have no doubt what solution was intended, though.

[tenflags]

Hi Philoctetes,

Worry not - I had already formed the view that the expected answer will be a full grid (if that helps Vetuste_ennemi) but I also had the view that very arguably this might not be need to be the case with regard to gaps as I stated above - I suspect the setter may not have seen this very contentious viewpoint - hence my letter - no doubt time will tell.

[vetuste_ennemi]

I accept and give gratitude for help from wheresoever i receive it, tenflags. My congratulations for having nine more flags than I and ten more than Mr. Christian.

[JackDeCrow]

I can see one "detour" which might be what you're referring to, Philoctetes, but would that not require the preamble to say "sides" rather than "edges"?

[Postigod]

Woo hoo. Second fully solved Listener in a row, which I'm very pleased with considering I've only started to seriously attempt non-numerical Listeners a couple of months ago. So 100% for February!

Having read some of the posts here, I went back to look at Phiz on the train this morning, which I never even started first time around due to lack of time in the run-up to Christmas. It looks really really evil - I solved half-a dozen clues on the train but have barekly scratched the surface :(