Now here is food for thought

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....s-stand-majority.html

Who has got it right Communities Secretary Eric Pickles or Rob Berkeley, director of the Runnymede Trust race equality think-tank?

/// Communities Secretary Eric Pickles accused the previous Labour administration, and its equalities minister Harriet Harman, of taking the country down 'the wrong path' by encouraging different communities to live separate lives. ///

/// Migrants will be required to speak English, the number of official documents translated into other languages will be reduced and councils will be allowed to hold prayers at the start of meetings.///

/// Rob Berkeley, director of the Runnymede Trust race equality think-tank, said Mr Pickles’ announcement marked 'a dangerous and ill-advised reversion to assimilationist policy where all differences of ethnicity and heritage are subsumed into a majoritarian "mainstream" './//

[sp1814]

One last thing - the name Eric Pickles sounds made up. Suspiciously like a 'Carry On' character.

[sunny-dave]

... but now that we have the recipe ...

< starts about 15 seconds in >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg-4ATrE8n0

[FredPuli43]

gromit, I know that Hispanics form a very significant, and increasing, part of the US population :-) I was saying that I supposed that forms would be in English and in Spanish only sparely , if at all. That's because I sense that the US is very reluctant to approve the use of any language but English in all matters of government, even at the lowest level .

[Gromit]

Fred-puli,

George Bush ran TV advertisements in Spanish.

http://articles.latim.../feb/07/news/mn-61939

Can you imagine the fuss if Millliband did a Party Political Broadcast in Urdu?

[New Judge]

The reason your TV has its instructions in 15 languages, Gromit, has nothing to do with Samsung embracing multiculturalism. It is purely a business decision. You will almost certainly find Dutch and French among the languages provided and there are not many people in the UK who speak Dutch or French as a first or only language. They sell TVs in many countries and it is cheaper to provide an instruction book fifteen times as large as it needs to be than to produce fifteen versions and ensure the correct one is inserted into each box.

If you “...don't believe there is a single community in Britain that has to live separately because they cannot speak English” try engaging to any meaningful degree with the Asian womenfolk of, say, Tower Hamlets, the Cowley district of Oxford, the Glodwick part of Oldham or the Lozells district of Birmingham to name a few of very many.

[Gromit]

New Judge,

Imported brides are high in those communities, but Is far less the the number of Asian women who were born here and speak english. The imported Brides will in most cases have a sister in law that can translate and communicate for them. Of the examples you gave, I have only experienced Glodwick, and it certainly is not isolated or unable to integrate because of lack of english.

[FredPuli43]

New Judge, just out of interest, have you tried to engage in meaningful conversation with Asian womenfolk in any of the districts you name in your post ?

[New Judge]

I have first hand knowledge of two of those areas. There are huge numbers of people, particularly women, in those (and many other) areas who are isolated because of language difficulties and cultural differences. Many of them were born here and have been kept in such isolation firstly by their parents and then by their husbands. The fact that some of them may have relatives who could provide translation or interpretation services for them does little to relieve that isolation. It’s not good for them and it’s of no benefit to the UK.

[FredPuli43]

NJ, yes it could be a problem.But,forty years ago, it was still common to find old workers in Chinese restaurant kitchens in Soho who, literally, spoke no English. They needed none; they never ventured alone or, perhaps, at all, outside their community. But they had descendants all of whom spoke English.
In what way , if any, do you distinguish their circumstances from those of the Asians of whom you write?

[ludwig]

We haven't had the phrase mumbo jumbo for a while so I thought I'd mention it.

[New Judge]

I distinguish their circumstances in no way whatsoever, Fred.

The Chinese you describe were every bit as isolated as the Asian women I have encountered. The big difference is that the women I have described are mainly young women, many born here, for whom such isolation is an extremely unsatisfactory state of affairs. It can surely be to nobody’s advantage that people living in the UK can only engage with the rest of society if they are accompanied by others.

[anotheoldgit]

I wonder how many countries use taxpayers money, so as to provide official interpreters for those who cannot speak the native tongue?

I was recently in a doctors surgery, and speaking to the receptionist was one such person who was helping the Asian woman by her side, to fill in an application form, for that person to register as a patient.

[sp1814]

AOG

Publicly funded in the US:

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos175.htm

However, the level of public subsidy in other countries would depend on the extent and numbers of people who don't share the native language.

I recall in Japan, seeing many signs in both Japanese and English, same in Wales (not Japanese, obv).

Documentation in Canada is in French and English, but I think some of our local councils will hold the record for the number of documents in multiple languages.

I suspect the defence they can take is based on "You cannot claim ignorance of this council edict, because the form was printed in a langauage you understand".

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// I suspect the defence they can take is based on "You cannot claim ignorance of this council edict, because the form was printed in a langauage you understand". ///

Seems a perfectly good excuse to get away with a parking fine.

[New Judge]

Sorry fred, I overlooked your question. Have I tried to engage in meaningful conversation with Asian womenfolk in any of the districts I mention? Yes I have - in Tower Hamlets and indeed in another area where I regularly work (but not one of the four mentioned). In almost every instance it was virtually impossible to get beyond "Hello, my name is New Judge" without the help of an interpreter or family/friends. The problem is widespread and is in my view completely unsatisfactory.