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Should I be paying half of the bills relating to the house my mother and myself owns.
Like many people in these threads I worked in London and was widowed and I have now joined my mother in her house on retirement.
I inherited my father's half of the house and sold my house in London.
For the last 2 years my mother has continued to pay the council tax, gas, electric and all the other bills relating to the house as they are on Direct Debit. I have paid for some improvements / repairs of the house but other than that I have contributed nothing to the expenses on the house side.
I have however paid to run and change the car, paid for holidays for myself and my mother, food, meals out and days out as well as paying towards my mothers private health insurance and can provide some evidence of this.
If my mother ever has to go into a home I understand Social Services may look at my mother's past expenses.
At this stage I have no reason to think Mum will have to go into care.
Should I pay half of the house expenses and charge Mum for half the car running expenses etc. This would involve a lot of work which I feel is a bit pointless.
Overall I am paying my way now.
Sue
I inherited my father's half of the house and sold my house in London.
For the last 2 years my mother has continued to pay the council tax, gas, electric and all the other bills relating to the house as they are on Direct Debit. I have paid for some improvements / repairs of the house but other than that I have contributed nothing to the expenses on the house side.
I have however paid to run and change the car, paid for holidays for myself and my mother, food, meals out and days out as well as paying towards my mothers private health insurance and can provide some evidence of this.
If my mother ever has to go into a home I understand Social Services may look at my mother's past expenses.
At this stage I have no reason to think Mum will have to go into care.
Should I pay half of the house expenses and charge Mum for half the car running expenses etc. This would involve a lot of work which I feel is a bit pointless.
Overall I am paying my way now.
Sue
Answers
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Hi Sue
I was in a similar situation with my father and I have to admit I never thought of this but my parents have passed away.
The direct debits relating to the house stayed on his account and I paid other expenses.
I have 2 friends who's parents had to go into care who owned the house jointly with their parent and they had to stand their ground against Social Services as the Social Worker wanted the house sold and the proceeds divided. Social Services could not legally enforce this as you may know.
This question has been answered on other threads but if you are unsure read Age Concern Factsheet 38 paragraph Jointly owned property.
As far as I know Social Services did not look at the way joint expenses were met by the mother / daughter but it may be possible in the future as councils are trying to cut expenditure.
I am just wandering if Social Services may say you are just paying mainly non essential expenses and try to make you pay your share of past household expenses.
Food however is essential. The car may be a mute point however.
Amy
I was in a similar situation with my father and I have to admit I never thought of this but my parents have passed away.
The direct debits relating to the house stayed on his account and I paid other expenses.
I have 2 friends who's parents had to go into care who owned the house jointly with their parent and they had to stand their ground against Social Services as the Social Worker wanted the house sold and the proceeds divided. Social Services could not legally enforce this as you may know.
This question has been answered on other threads but if you are unsure read Age Concern Factsheet 38 paragraph Jointly owned property.
As far as I know Social Services did not look at the way joint expenses were met by the mother / daughter but it may be possible in the future as councils are trying to cut expenditure.
I am just wandering if Social Services may say you are just paying mainly non essential expenses and try to make you pay your share of past household expenses.
Food however is essential. The car may be a mute point however.
Amy
Hi Sue / Amy
I think a car could be regarded as an essential as Sue's mother is elderly.
I am about to get into a similar situation and would be interested if anybody knows the answer to this question.
Going by logic however are we going to get to a point where anybody over 50 will have to ask permission to spend their own money on a car, holiday or on any luxury items.
I am saying over 50 as myself and my mother went to see one of her friends in a nursing home last week and I was astonished to find I was older than one of the residents.
Hanna
I think a car could be regarded as an essential as Sue's mother is elderly.
I am about to get into a similar situation and would be interested if anybody knows the answer to this question.
Going by logic however are we going to get to a point where anybody over 50 will have to ask permission to spend their own money on a car, holiday or on any luxury items.
I am saying over 50 as myself and my mother went to see one of her friends in a nursing home last week and I was astonished to find I was older than one of the residents.
Hanna
It shouldn't make any difference. You own half the house & Social Services cannot do anything about that - if they try to argue you are not paying some of the expenses so you don't own it & they can take it & sell it that is self-evident nonsense.
However, if you are concerned it might be simplest if you paid the utilities & council tax in full out of your account & then balanced things up by your mother paying for some of the other expenses you mention.
However, if you are concerned it might be simplest if you paid the utilities & council tax in full out of your account & then balanced things up by your mother paying for some of the other expenses you mention.
Beware ! If the time comes and your Mum does need to go into a home the council WILL, illegally, try to get you to sell the house to pay care fees. They
try this on all the time now , just look back at some of the threads on AB !
When they try it with you (and they will ) you have to refuse and insist that your Mum gets 100% funding. The value of half a house with a tenant (you) who has the right to live there for life is effectively zero so your Mums assets are nil and she qualifies for 100% funding. When and if the time comes you have to refuse to pay anything and insist she gets the 100% funding she is entitled to. Once they realise you are not going to pay and that you know the law they will back down.
My brother is the senior housing finance controller for a large London council and he has told me that the officers will do this and that they have to back down once they meet up with someone who knows the law and stands up to them. But the council officer are told they have to try to 'persuade' relatives to fund care and save the council many thousands of £s. Remember the cheapest care homes start at over £550 a week ! and it can go to over £2000 a week , no house sale is going to fund that for long !
try this on all the time now , just look back at some of the threads on AB !
When they try it with you (and they will ) you have to refuse and insist that your Mum gets 100% funding. The value of half a house with a tenant (you) who has the right to live there for life is effectively zero so your Mums assets are nil and she qualifies for 100% funding. When and if the time comes you have to refuse to pay anything and insist she gets the 100% funding she is entitled to. Once they realise you are not going to pay and that you know the law they will back down.
My brother is the senior housing finance controller for a large London council and he has told me that the officers will do this and that they have to back down once they meet up with someone who knows the law and stands up to them. But the council officer are told they have to try to 'persuade' relatives to fund care and save the council many thousands of £s. Remember the cheapest care homes start at over £550 a week ! and it can go to over £2000 a week , no house sale is going to fund that for long !
Hi Eddie
Sue is not just a tennant. She is an owner occupier likely to be a tennant in common so the council will not have the right to force the sale of the house or put a charge on it.
Sue
What you could do is open a joint expenses account which you and your mother pay an even amount into and use the account to pay for household bills and the other expenses you mention.
Another thing which may be worth doing is keeping a record of the use of the car especially if you are using the car to take your mother to hospitals etc.
I know somebody who ran a car with her mother and when she recorded the mileage for a month. 50% related to her mother's appointments and about 30% was joint and 20% related to the daughter.
I think if any social worker looked at this they may initially argue that as the daughter drives the car it should be totally at her expense but I think the mother should pay more than half.
Hanna
Sue is not just a tennant. She is an owner occupier likely to be a tennant in common so the council will not have the right to force the sale of the house or put a charge on it.
Sue
What you could do is open a joint expenses account which you and your mother pay an even amount into and use the account to pay for household bills and the other expenses you mention.
Another thing which may be worth doing is keeping a record of the use of the car especially if you are using the car to take your mother to hospitals etc.
I know somebody who ran a car with her mother and when she recorded the mileage for a month. 50% related to her mother's appointments and about 30% was joint and 20% related to the daughter.
I think if any social worker looked at this they may initially argue that as the daughter drives the car it should be totally at her expense but I think the mother should pay more than half.
Hanna
Owner occupier / tennants in common or any other situation the council WILL try to presuade the daughter/son or other relative to sell up and downsize so that they can pay care fees. It is illegal and unjust but they will do it. I have see far too many cases . That is why I said the questioner has to be determined and resist the demands , once the council realise that you know the law and are not going to 'roll over' they have to give in but they WILL try it on.
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